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RFR Q&A #148: From Flash Gordon to Andor (Patreon)

Published:
2023-01-17 22:36:02
Edited:
2024-02-09 21:44:17
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Much has been discussed about the more mature and edgy take on the STAR WARS universe as seen in ANDOR, and some wonder if that represents a shift in the way STAR WARS films are told. George Lucas used a mashup of many different types of storytelling to create the foundation of STAR WARS, including among others, Samurai films, westerns and Flash Gordon serials. RFR V.I.P. Sean Wanty returns to the Q&A with his review of ANDOR and it's different vibe. We look at how STAR WARS story telling has evolved from George Lucas's inspirations to what we see today. Is there room for modern, adult STAR WARS stories among those steeped in Lucas's style? We discuss! Plus, Sean gets caught up on the pulse of fandom since OBI-WAN KENOBI and how some our hindsight may have altered over time. 

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Todd “Suds” Sedlacek

Welcome back Sean! Glad to hear you again…very enjoyable as usual!

Dominique Garant

Great show. Hey Sean, i'll try to answer your question about the "mood" of the fandom, specially the difference in appreciation of various series before and after Andor. I am pretty sure my comment will bring some heat on me, but that's life. I am also pretty sure my Star Wars appreciation ressemble yours, as i do like humour, wimziness, wackiness, and even some silliness in Star Wars. Also, when i'll use the term "general public", i do mean that. Your friend, or cousin, or coworker that really enjoys Star Wars. The RFR group is NOT the general public. We are crazy fans that actually hang on a patreon supported podcast. Our take does NOT reflect "normal fandom". So. BoBB came out. And was generally appreciated by the public. Kenobi came out, and was also aprreciated, a lot. Then Andor came out, and bombed in the general public opinion. Basically, the production sucked all the humour and fun out of Star Wars and made a show about it. Viewers just droped out, calling it boring, slow, etc... What i didn't know is that there is a portion of the fanbase that was actually waiting and hoping for an adult Star Wars. A serious show. Don'T ask me to explain it, i don't get it. To me it's like wanting a pizza without cheese. But, there was a target audience, that, i guess, was tired of the craziness of Star Wars, and wanted something gritty and dead serious. So, seeing how the show was unpopular, they became very very vocal about how great the show is. I mean, it sometimes edge on the ridiculous. It is an ok show, very well written and acted. But they made it sound like the best TV show in the history of TV. But it's the internet, and hype goes a long way. So Andor gained hyped. Serious Star Wars gained hype, it is now very very cool to like Andor. And thus, it became uncool to like silly Bobba Fett, or to think that Kenobi was great. Fan-cool-hype shifted. Praise Andor, crap on BOBBF. But overall, in the "general public", BoBBF is still super fun, Kenobi is still great, and Andor still lacks any fun in it. But on fan site, blogs, etc... the loud narative is that Andor is greater than bacon, and the other series are garbage. Now, let me put my shield on :)

Eric from Phoenix

Sean, glad you're back and enjoyed your conversation with Jimmy. You guys failed to mention my favorite role that Max Von Sydow had, Ming from the Flash Gordan movie. I thought he was great in that role. I always wanted John Williams to do a panel at Star Wars Celebration and to date he hasn't done one, however, he did show up to conduct the Orlando Orchestra for the Carrie Fisher tribute during the last Orlando Celebration. We didn't get into that panel and didn't get to see him live. His appearance was a total secret until they pulled the curtain back and he was there.

Sean W. from Warsaw
>>99887445

Thanks! I made it into the first four episodes or so of Tales of the Jedi and have really been digging it! I can't believe I missed all this when it dropped. Dooku is actually my favorite SW villain and Qui-gon is my favorite character. Seeing the show give so much love to both has blown my mind--especially with regard to Dooku going to the dark side. This is something I've always wanted to see...and there it was the whole time for the last few months!

Sean W. from Warsaw
>>99989449

Thanks so much, Peter. It is true what they say: Nobody nicer than Peter Beisser! I'm still catching up on Q&A's. You still doing them?

Sean W. from Warsaw
>>100051976

Lol Beautifully written. I really appreciate your candor and honesty. We need more of that, for sure. Thanks for filling me in on the fandom at large, or at least the general public. It's kinda like what Jason said a while back: They think it's "good Star Wars until the creative put all that Star Wars stuff in it." Which is a shame. If people want something totally different in tone from what has made SW what is is for decades, check out some other shows. Trying to redefine a franchise is probably not the best solution. That's like if someone were a Game of Thrones fan but said he wanted GoT to be family friendly! Make it more like SW or something, and THEN say "that's the REAL GoT!" Man, I just don't get it. However, I will say, like I brought up in the show, that I cam appreciate experimentation--at least up to a point. SW is a unique melding of different genres, after all, and like in the old EU books and comics there have been instances of creatives going uber serious. But unfortunately, as I recall, that also kinda killed it back then, too. Luke became very unapproachable and unrelatable, for instance; major characters were dying off left and right; and so on. I appreciate experimentation, but SW is very unique, almost like its own genre. Skirting that line can be really tricky. I don't envy the creatives that task.

Sean W. from Warsaw
>>100113809

That's so funny you brought up Ming the Merciless because not long after I did the show I was talking with my wife about Flash Gordon movies, and I brought that one up--and realized to my horror I had forgotten Max von Sydow had played him! Man.... lol Ah well. Anyways, been wanting to actually sit down and watch the old films from the 30s and 40s. I have yet to do so outside of a tiny bit, to my shame. But at least I saw (most of) the one with Max von Sydow! As for Williams, man what I would have given to see him at that live performance for the Carrie Fisher tribute. Quite moving.

Eric from Phoenix
>>100113809

Thanks to your Q and A we watched the 1980’s Flash Gordon last night. Not a great movie but still a ton of fun. Lots of Star Wars / Empire actors in the movie too.

Sean W. from Warsaw

Wow, this show dropped WAY sooner than I expected it to! I feel like a complete bum for taking so long to reply on the forum for my own show... lol Thank you guys so much for your support. It means a lot to me. I hope I'll be able to stick around like before and chat it up as I used to with you all! I've missed that an awful lot. But so far as I can tell, I'll be around!

Sean W. from Warsaw
>>99840059

Gotcha. Yeah, it's really weird for me: I find myself kinda in the middle ground a bit, in which I liked the show and was pleasantly surprised by the story it was telling, yet have been confused by the approach with the seriousness of it all. It's a tough middle line to walk for me! But I was definitely sucked in with that prison break arc! I mean, wow, just so good! Andor is a very interesting show, one way or the other. It kept me on my toes in many ways, even when I didn't really feel comfortable about certain directions. So I gotta at least give it credit there. Overall, while my taste and sensibilities are much more in line with the way Lucas presented the films, I'm intrigued enough to see how this show wraps up and fits into it all. I like what Jason and Jimmy said in one of the last shows of 2022: We're really seeing the "dark times" for what they were until the Skywalkers showed up. I can definitely run with that. It's such a different tone when they finally come on the scene when compared to this! Very intriguing, indeed.

Sean W. from Warsaw
>>99857976

Me too. Thanks so much for your thoughts and support. Incidentally, I was thinking of that very episode lately! I'm proud of all my episodes with Jimmy, but for some reason that one stands out more than others. The more I think about the ideas presented in that, the more my mind is blown that an intelligent being strong in the Force could be created--and yet the storytelling device of it is something you gotta be careful with. It's good stuff! Might have to re-listen to that one myself, how! ;)

Sean W. from Warsaw
>>99872870

For sure, man. Thanks! Yeah, I'm really digging those rpg sessions. I meant to say more in this episode about them, but the conversation swept me away. I think Jimmy is actually more of a natural at role-playing than he might believe! His ability to just riff on things and improv out of the blue is perfect for a game like this. It's the kind of game that pulls out those qualities in some pretty unique ways. And being the entertainer that he is makes it just downright fun! I think the group they have going is just right: The chemistry and how they bounce ideas off each other and all that makes for easy listening, indeed! I used to play all three versions of the SW RPG ever since I was a kid, and sometimes D&D or another rpg altogether. I'd play characters and gamemaster, both, going so far as to have like 30 pages or more of backstory and character histories for one campaign--all done over months of writing, just for the fun of writing and love of the game! I've still got them. Might have to whip those out again....

Ben P. Stein

Sean, great to hear you again! I have been out of the loop lately as well but your Q&A with Jimmy has helped me get back into things.

Billy Mac

I know I’m a little behind on this, but here’s an interesting connection: Stellan Skarsgaard played Fr.Merrin in both versions of the Exorcist prequel (the reason for that is another story). That role was originated by Max Von Sydow. And let’s not forget Sydow as Brewmeister Smith in Strange Brew!

Jim from Sweden

Finally got around to listen to this episode. Always funny to hear you yanks speak of Sweden! :D

Jim from Sweden

About Stellans career. One of his earliest roles is a 50s black and white film of a classic swedish book "Bombi Bitt and I", an analogue of Huckleberry Finn you could say. And his first great role IMO is "The Simple-Minded Killer" from 1982. A dark drama from swedens greatest commedian at the time, Hans Alfredson (father of director Toma Alfredson). He also play the truly evil antagonist of the film. Stellan is the titular simple protagonist character. Look for trailers online for "Den Enfaldige Mördaren" if you can't find the film itself... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Simple-Minded_Murderer

Dale Morris

I got a bit behind on Q&As, but finally listened to and enjoyed this one. For anyone interested in The Oxen, its available here for free: https://tubitv.com/movies/477106/the-ox?start=true Also, I got to see John Williams in concert at the Hollywood Bowl a few years ago and it was definitely a show I will never forget. Fun times!

Jeff Holland

Welcome back Mr. Wanty! Glad your back. Star Wars will always be here waiting for you.

Adam Taylor

Not listened yet so my input is redundant lol, but I think there’s a lot of contradictory takes from many Lucas interviews. To me Star Wars has always been for all ages, but telling adult themes that all can digest. I think over a decade of the clone wars/Rebels etc has revised peoples memories that this has always been a pre-teen animated franchise. We MUST have room for shows like Andor in my opinion, I cannot continue as a Star Wars fan with derivatives of TCW and plushy toy sales. Live and let live I say, the same way I don’t push back on peoples enjoyment of cartoons, I’d like to think people will allow me an Andor once in a while. Obviously many of you, Jimmy of course, have been fans since 1977, and I would not dare step in and tell people what Star Wars is and isn’t. But as someone who just never dug the animation, Andor was a breath of fresh air for me.

Antonio from NJ

I'm sorry to hear about the past few months Sean. I was just wondering when you were up next for a QA (was re listening to the Force Wielding Clones QA). Hope things are getting better man and that the last few months are in the rearview mirror!

Scott Osterkamp

Delusions of grandeur made me belly laugh Sean! Great to hear you again and I’ll echo base Antonio, I hope it’s all in the rear view mirror, baby… added a Lando at the end of mine! Great listen!

Andrew Fearnside

Great to have you back Sean. I get it when you say it’s hard keeping up. There is so much content (not complaining 😂) coming at us it can get overwhelming. As for RFR, I was way behind on Q&A’s but slowly catching up. I’ve just finished #138, the final RPG session and then this one but I was still listening to July’s Q&A’s last week, so doing well. As the other guys have said, I hope things are looking up. Great episode!

Blake Weaver

Sean I was super happy to see you’re back! Really enjoyed the laid back and forth with Jimmy. Really good listen. Looking forward to your viewpoints on Tales of the Jedi. Also loved the talk on Book of Boba. I personally loved that show. Honestly it was the only live action Star Wars I liked in 2022. Kenobi was a mess and Andor just wasn’t for me personally. But anytime I see Tem Morrison playing Boba it just makes me happy. The series felt like a Star Wars comic come to life. And loved the baseball talk! ( go marlins )

Adam Taylor

Just listened, always a thoughtful show, you have a very happy and calming presence Sean, and you always pull a great conversation out of Jimmy! Great to hear you again.

RobO from ChicagO

The image now associated with “an old guy waving his stick in front of people” is now burned into my brain. Thanks Jimmy.

RobO from ChicagO

In regards to BoBf, I’ve tried to rewatch it, but just can’t get through it. I think it’s a collection of cool scenes, but ultimately the story is awfully written, directed, and hate to say it since I do like Tam… acted.

Peter Beisser

Sean, you're the man. I'll echo our friends above and just say that I dig your laid back calming chats with JMac. Welcome back.