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86 EIGHT-SIX - Episode 3 (Patreon)

Published:
2023-12-15 01:23:28
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Masterpiece so far! (I know we are only on episode 3) Also hope you guys enjoy our long discussion at the end 😅 Curious to hear your thoughts on it!

Comments

Zach Adam

Yes! I always love to hear your thoughts in the long discussions

Kee

Didn't watch the entire reaction yet. But I guess you got 20ish more bangers to go.

Kee

I have so many things to say, but I'll keep it to a minimum. xD This show often has dates that are fed to the viewer. These I found to be more important then most movies or shows that usually just says "2 years ago" or whatever. So it might be hard but, dates in 86 tells so much. As for the long discussions, I think it's great. I think both of you are right. As Ron said, you need someone that won't break down after every little thing. As Michelle said, you need someone that will empathize and be more emotional. I would argue that you could have a character that is more thick-skin that lacks empathy, learn to empathize or a character that has empathy but has to learn to grow a thicker skin. Now I wonder how any of those thoughts are going to evolve with each episodes. Regardless if it's about Lena(Handler One), Shin (Undertaker), Spearhead and/or any other theory you may have about any of the questions this shows throws at you. Annnnd I wrote way too much already, peace.

Hikiko

I get what Ron's saying. A Levi in the story could be an epic Brothers in arms type spin that could be really good, but the characters would have to be tweaked quite a bit on the 86 side to have them all open to that kind of thing. This story is more of an emotional buildup that wants you to empathize the entire way rather than having to wait for the payoff at the end when the Levi character would have to eventually fight side by side with the 86 or something. Having an emotional character who's naive like Lena makes it easier to use her to drive home really emotional moments to the audience unlike a Levi character who wouldn't be able to emote as often. He wouldn't do anything more than apologize calmly after realizing he didn't even bother learning the 86s names and that doesnt hit quite as hard. Good discussion though.

Piranhaconda

When it comes to Lena fitting into the category of not being able to handle it, I HIGHLY recommend rewatching the first minute of the first episode. I think the action made the info you were given there fly over your head

CE Ong

But it's not Gojo being Handler One. Ron I don't know why you were so hard on arguing that Lena should be a different person as Handler One. She is naive. She's on this job. She's learning first hand how naive she is in this harsh reality. That's the Story. On second thought, it's completely fair to have different opinions about a story or character, so let's not argue and enjoy the next one

원 지 (edited)

Comment edits

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Moses T24

From what I'm getting, Ron's perspective is that despite handler one being empathetic and emotional person, she should be smart and aware enough to realize that the 86 will probably hate her based on how the other handlers have reacted(suicides/resignations). The 86 being mean shouldn't be catching her off-guard especially knowing herself how bad her people treated them. And in Mitchell's perspective is that her being emotional over them being mean is part of her character development since she was being very naive and didn't really understand what 86 is going through. She was basically ignoring the fact that the 86 probably despises her thinking that just being friendly is enough. This was a great discussion coz when I first watched the show I felt the same way as Ron but I've also come to understand Mitchell's perspective too

Jake Thompson

She asked the cats name before she asked them. She had an idea of what treating them fairly was, but it was still biased and insulting.

PattieLo

Good discussion you guys ! Very interesting. As someone else has said though, the fact that Lena asked the cat’s name as soon as they mentioned they had one, while she says that she is treating them as people is one of the things Theo at the end throws at her face as “hypocrisy”. She is calling them every night to talk with them and from her side that counts as treating them as “humans”, which in a sense is the bare minimum (but understandable given the circumstances). And she told them that why she wanted to help 86 is because she was saved by one of them on the battlefield and proceeded to give them a speech of honor and pride based on what one person told her, without validating how they might feel differently. Of course that would also touch a nerve on people that are being forced to fight, really. I think (and this is just me) that why those words at the end hurt Lena was not only because she is caring but also because she really thought she was treating them as people and understanding them, she thought she was different from the other Alba, but in the end she was also treating them with biased undertones. Just Some thoughts thrown here!

Kee
>>124574269

I was going to point that out next episode, but yes. Ultimately, what shook her wasn't really "how" Theo said what he said. It was what she realized after hearing those words.

PattieLo
>>124574269

Oh! Do You think I should delete that from the comment? To not give spoilers away?

En

She naver experience that type sutuation Ron because b4 that she handles weak groups…… hahaha sorry

En
>>124579509

Last group naver talk bad too her that why she shocked I think 🤔 💭

Jahmilla

I do think Lena’s personality fits well with the story being told, but I also understand Ron’s point towards the end about being entitled to your opinion about a character. There are plenty of anime I enjoy but don’t care for the character’s choices or personality (Ex. Deku, Sakura, Karin-some of the characters whose personalities I dislike, leaving out super villains like Spandom or Akainu) So both stances are valid imo

Raden

You know a show has great writing when they have a 20+ min discussion. Thoughts on Lena are definitely valid at this point with her naivety. Character building to come

Christina H.

Lena in the beginning of the show is very naive. She says that the 86 are also citizens of the republic but at the same time doesn't ask them their names. Because that's what she's been taught her whole life. She didn't even realize she treated them that way. So in this episode her blindfold is being forcibly removed. Great discussion. There is a lot of character building to come.

Rene Mayr

I really enjoyed your discussion at the end. It truly reflects your passion for the story. However, I personally believe that, for the sake of the narrative, you need a more naive character to make it effective. Maybe I'm biased because, as Ron mentioned, I know the show. I also don't think AoT with a personality like Lena's would work for Levi. As Michelle pointed out, displaying commitment through actions works well on the battlefield, but in this setting, it might not. Let's see how the show progresses and how your opinions develope.

Vaer Lebox

At the beginning you talked about Zero casualties. Yes that was during the past two weeks but those two weeks were her time aß the Handler of spearhead. The Guy that died in the unit in Episode 1 was before Lena because handler of them so she only Counts the time from when she Started. Its Not that Months have passed, she simply Counts by how Long she has been there and what happend during that time :)

Phyllis

So this was a long discussion. Lena was naïve and thought she knew the 86 folks and what they are facing and wanted to understand them but Lena only knew the surface. I get where Ron is coming from but don't forget one thing, and that is you will never know how someone is really feeling. This is what Lena did not know. She thought she was prepared but she wasn't. She thought she knew enough of the 86 people and how much they dislike the white hair people but she did not. Their hatred was much deeper than that. You can feel similarly to how someone is feeling but you can never feel the same unless you are that person. Those Handlers who had led the Undertaker's team, basically were not prepared and were bombed with all this harsh reality and felt guilt to the point of suicide or retiring. Also Ron, every anime cannot have a character like Levi or Mikasa. It will make all the anime predictable and boring to watch. Ron's train of thoughts is sailing too far from 86 and towards AOT. You need to watch the show like you never watched other anime before and go in with a fresh and open mind. Ron is not wrong and can feel free to have thoughts of 'if' Levi were to lead them and it will be different but this show is not about a character like Levi. Yes, Levi may be know how to handle them and change their views. However, the person in the seat is Lena whose personality is not like Levi and story will show how she will handle Undertaker's team.

Diego Rodrigo Duque Soto

I think Lena fell from her high horse after Theo ranted on her. This show is so good, and we still have the better episodes ahead, can’t wait!

Michelle Lam

Loved reading all of these comments! At the end of the day, it really shows how good and thought-provoking this show is! We love it.

Thamor

You could always write down the dates as it's clearly shown how fast time is moving. That way you can have some insight is it months or just weeks or just days after events. First time watching this I didn't make too much notice to dates, but noticed the months so did have some clue how fast time moves.

Bungkai

when ron and michelle start arguing about the plot.. "MOM, DAD STOP PLEASE"

Bungkai

Both of you guys are right though, I don't necessarily think her character needs to be like that for the anime to work, though I don't think Levi's specific way would work, I think he was a bad example hahah, I think a big part of why Ron responded the way he did was because it's hard to watch Lena pretty much have a mental break down

dash12321
>>124610107

I believe there's actually a real-world thing about this too. Something like unintentional bias, where you don't try to be stereotyping/racist, but it ends up being subtly implied just by how you phrase something or how you act.

dash12321

I do have to disagree with having a levi-type character as MC. Levi is more or less a realist, and tbh there's kinda already a person in the show who could hint at what a levi lead would look like (karstahl). remember, levi even understood why erwin had to die and did nothing to stop him; on the contrary he forced him to. the reason why this is so emotional is BECAUSE lena is such a naive idealist. I don't think kaie's death was the reason she had a mental breakdown. she's experienced loss before this with her previous squadrons after all, and even as naive as she is, she knows losses are inevitable to a degree. she doesn't break down over "every little thing." being sorry something happened is not the same as what happened to her here, but rather it was lena being forced to face the reality in direct opposition to her idealism. what hurt her most wasn't kaie's death or theo's anger, it was trying to convey that she's different from other alba, but realizing she is in the end just as bad as the other alba not seeing the 86 as equals. (I believe this is something in real life too, like unintentional bias or something like that) this is what ends up fueling lena's true character growth.

Tyrek Humes

You guys were scaring me lmaooo😂😂😂😂

Dustin Fryer

michelle was right lol

Alante Quarles

i know you guys watched this forever ago but I’m still gonna comment 😅 I think it’s important to remember that breaking down in no way means weak. Levi and Mikasa are def not a norm when looking at human psychology and definitely not a norm when looking at people in these type of jobs (command and control and jobs this close to death). It’s how you move on/grow from these hard experiences. In her case she believed she was ready and has already been doing the job with other units and she got caught up in all the positive moments before it came crashing down. I’m an investigator and believe me all of us have had or will have a breakdown like this at some point or multiple points in our careers. Knowing that and how to recover are what make you strong. I do agree with you Ron in that I didn’t feel bad for her but I in no way think even at this point in the show that she isn’t right for the job. Truth is people that care this much are some of the best people for these jobs.