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The Sopranos 4x04 Reaction (Patreon)

Published:
2025-01-10 11:23:20
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The Sopranos 4x04

________________________ patreon - https://www.patreon.com/LMreactions twitter - https://twitter.com/LMreaction tv time - lola - skysstillblue, milena - oneofthe100

Comments

Isaac

I remembered this episode as one of my favorites from the title. Really held up, for me

Jack SV

Just in time for breakfast.

Jack SV

No more weight remarks in the comments.. they are hurtful 😤 jk jk but for real it’s always funny to me that conflicts in this show usually start over silly things like a jokes or people gossiping about someone lol. You would think the mafia wouldn’t have such a fragile ego but hey.. now don’t get me wrong, I don’t blame the guy for defending his wife honor but definitely these characters go to the extreme as you saw this episode lol

Marcus Cato

Definitely a favorite episode of mine. it really ties into one of my favorite themes of the Sopranos: the way that all the terrible things they put out into the world come back to them in random, unpredictable ways. I enjoy reading the comments from everyone as well as the post-episode discussions. In the words of Carmine Sr: I appreciate your thoughts.

Josip

carmine talking to toni on the phone is one of my favorite scenes ever, ordering a hit without saying anything, kinda like the "fuck" scene in the wire where jimmy and bunk solved a murder without saying anything lol

Karan Verma

Fun fact: One of the older men from the Atwell Avenue Boys, plays the role of Al Neri, Michael's right hand man in The Godfather movies.

bondbond53

The girls being disappointed moms in AJ is so funny

IanJ

First off, you've now hit the halfway point of the show so congrats! Lots of good episodes to come. Johnny definitely became one of my favourite characters after this episode. In future episodes, pay attention to his scenes with Tony, and the way the show frames them. John with his tailored suit vs Tony with his leather jacket. The elegance of the New York Mafia vs. the seediness of the New Jersey Mob. The contrast between John and his boss Carmine Sr. is also interesting here, in that John actually stood up for the "old-school" values of the mob such as honor and family (as Junior pointed out) while the older Carmine Sr. only cares about the money, even offering to commit a huge betrayal against one of his most trusted captains just to keep things quiet. With regards to Furio I think you girls nailed it on the head in the discussion with what this implies towards Carmela's character. Carmela never had a problem with Tony's crime and gangster lifestyle. Her problem ultimately is Tony's emotional unavailability. They both equate love with money. What Sopranos does differently from other shows is that when something traumatic happened to Melfi, it didn't start a multi-season plot arc and instead left a bruise that fades but never fully goes away. Because of this, some people accuse the show of depicting a rape victim quickly "getting over it", and that's really not the case at all. It affects her life the way trauma affects most people's lives. Junior is hilarious in this episode. With the way he dressed up while working remotely, it's almost like he pioneered the post-COVID work from home trend lol.

Abacus
>>160883394

Speaking of the contrast between Johnny Sack and Tony — in an episode in which Tony and Carmela both shout accusations at each other of equating love with money, Johnny is the one making the case that things like love, honour, and respect can be something worth cherishing for their own sake rather than being purely transactional. Not many seem to agree with him.

Darrach

And with this episode, we are officially past the halfway point of the show! Going by very fast. I like how you focused on Johns genuine love for Ginny. He’s capable of great violence like all the men in this world but there is something respectable about him this episode. I’m a big fan of Johnny Sack, and look forward to seeing him more. A scene I love is Carmine on the phone to Tony. He says everything he needs to without ever saying a thing. He does something similar with Junior on the phone, answering the questions about his own trial without any specifics. A boss his age doesn’t get to where he is without learning to tread carefully. I also love Junior getting dressed in a suit, for a phone call in his kitchen lol. Tony’s little shoulder shrug he gives when Junior says he’s right is funny too. Very bizarre scene in Rhode Island with the killers-for-hire. I think the writer describes this as a homage to David Lynchs works and it definitely gives off that vibe. There are some interesting connections to S3E4, exactly one season ago ‘Employee of the Month’ which is the episode where Melfi was raped. That episode was the introduction of Ginny Sack, and where she was also mocked for the first time. and in this episode we hear Melfi discuss her assault for the first time this season again. There is definitely subtext of the treatment of women and the female body via connective tissue of these two episodes, made more explicit here. All in all this makes for quite an intense episode, with John and Ralph both nearly getting killed over this joke, despite it managing to resolve peacefully in the end. Definitely a season highlight. The ending scene is so great too, with the music from Furios party switching from diegetic (Meadow playing the song in her room) to incidental (Carmela presumably hearing the music in her head) as she has sex with Tony, her mind is very much elsewhere.

Mark M

Love this episode. It's nice to see Johnny reaffirm his love for Ginny rather than lash out at her or give in to the status games. You can see the contrast between him, Furio and Bobby last episode vs Tony ignoring Carmela and telling her the finances are boring. Plus it shows how close all these guys are to turning on each other, how transactional a lot of their 'family' is.

JayFi

So much pivots on this episode. Relationships form and crumble. One of the classics.

Mahni Alizadeh

Love this episode for Johnny Sack (might be my favorite character) but Milena going “he’s not blind” about Furio and Carmela gave me a good chuckle

Tyler Scott

This is one of my favorite episodes, Johnny is also one of my fav characters.

Gaboxxy
>>160883394

I think Johnny Sack represents the stereotypical, classical "godfather-type" of mobster: ruthless and calculative, but with a strong sense of code and family values. He is the romantization of the Mafia. Tony and his crew offer a more "realistic" view of what most mobsters are probably like.

Zach D

FURIO ATE IT. 💀 with all due respect we all know these are horrible humans, you don’t need to keep clarifying that they’re pieces of shit before saying that you like aspects of a character.. it isn’t real life so you can root for the “bad guy”or for “bad” shit to happen without a guilty conscious!

Gaboxxy (edited)

Comment edits

2025-01-12 01:54:06 The reason Johnny felt insulted the most wasn't the remark itself, but the fact that he saw how hard Ginny was working on her weight with no results, which is why he felt the joke was such an attack on her resolve and honor. When he learned the truth, that Ginny wasn't really trying hard, he didn't get mad because she wasn't really trying to get thin, he couldn't care less about her weight, but rather because he felt betrayed as he really thought she was really giving her best and that's what she told him, she lied to him. On one hand he felt relieved that as a marriage they can stop with all the dieting and body issues, and he wants Ginny to feel fine about her body and to reassure her that for him she will always be beautiful, but on the other hand he couldn't maintain the same level of anger at Ralph anymore because the reason he was the angriest to begin with now has now justifiable basis, which is why he calls off the hit.
2025-01-12 01:54:06 The reason Johnny felt insulted the most wasn't the remark itself, but the fact that he saw how hard Ginny was working on her weight with no results, which is why he felt the joke was such an attack on her resolve and honor. When he learned the truth, that Ginny wasn't really trying hard, he didn't get mad because she wasn't really trying to get thin, he couldn't care less about her weight, but rather because he felt betrayed as he really thought she was really giving her best and that's what she told him, she lied to him. On one hand he felt relieved that as a marriage they can stop with all the dieting and body issues, and she want Ginny to feel fine about her body and to reassure her that for him she will always be beautiful, but on the other hand he couldn't maintain the same level of anger at Ralph anymore because the reason he was the angriest to begin with now has now justifiable basis, which is why he calls off the hit.
2025-01-10 18:17:20 The reason Johnny felt insulted the most wasn't the remark itself, but the fact that he saw how hard Ginny was working on her weight with no results, which is why he felt the joke was such an attack on her resolve and honor. When he learned the truth, that Ginny wasn't really trying hard, he didn't get mad because she wasn't really trying to get thin, he couldn't care less about her weight, but rather because he felt betrayed as he really thought she was really giving her best and that's what she told him, she lied to him. On one hand he felt relieved that as a marriage they can stop with all the dieting and body issues, and he wants Ginny to feel fine about her body and to reassure her that for him she will always be beautiful, but on the other hand he couldn't maintain the same level of anger at Ralph anymore because the reason he was the angriest to begin with now has no justifiable basis, which is why he calls off the hit.

The reason Johnny felt insulted the most wasn't the remark itself, but the fact that he saw how hard Ginny was working on her weight with no results, which is why he felt the joke was such an attack on her resolve and honor. When he learned the truth, that Ginny wasn't really trying hard, he didn't get mad because she wasn't really trying to get thin, he couldn't care less about her weight, but rather because he felt betrayed as he really thought she was really giving her best and that's what she told him, she lied to him. On one hand he felt relieved that as a marriage they can stop with all the dieting and body issues, and he wants Ginny to feel fine about her body and to reassure her that for him she will always be beautiful, but on the other hand he couldn't maintain the same level of anger at Ralph anymore because the reason he was the angriest to begin with now has no justifiable basis, which is why he calls off the hit.

Varus

It's really cozy watching these with you and you two are so intelligent and nice and likeable. So cozy.

Gaboxxy
>>160909797

I feel so confused because they've reacted to several other characters that are as bad or even objectively worse, yet they never acted so judgmental towards them. Characters like Walter White, Jimmy Mcgill, or even the Phantom Troupe (totally different kind of show, I know, but just saying...). Hell, even Michael Corleone was much more cruel, cold and manipulative than Tony or his crew could ever be. But with every single male Soprano's character, they act as if they are all the second coming of Hitler and get on their 500 ft high moral horse to completely berate them every chance they get, even in completely mundane situations. It gets tiring. It's also frustrating that in each and every conflict between Carmela and Tony they instantly take Carmela's side no matter what. We get it, Tony is not the best family man to say the least, but he's not a horrible parent and Carmela is not perfect either. Many of us had parents that were way worse and abusive than either Tony or Carmela, and they didn't have the excuse of being born into a severely dysfunctional and abusive family that basically groomed them into being mafia members and exposed them to high levels of violence. I know I'm ranting and ultimately they are entitled to their opinions, but it's just so draining to see this highly cynical view of the characters episode after episode. To extend an olive branch, I do love their appreciation of Ralphie as a character, he really is the type of character you love to hate. I do look forward to seeing their reaction to his character development.

TalbertInc

I’m not sure why they are so against the soprano family and want them to fall, like the premise of the show is that you’re watching mobsters. It’s not as if anyone on this show is a good person, even Carmela is more than happy to live off of blood money and willingly turn away from what she knows her husband and his mob family are doing. Like cheering for John to burn the Soprano family all down after he beats up a random kid and pisses on him is wild to me. Maybe they need to turn down their moral compass or something, I never recalled them going this hard on someone like Gus who’d regularly order the deaths of kids in BB.

Abacus
>>160909797

@Gaboxxy I agree the man-hating gets tiring. I randomly got recommended this channel when they were doing season 1 and I got straight into it, they just seemed to "get it" when dealing with the psychology/dreams side of the show, and had really great in-depth discussions about every episode, so much so that I found myself subscribing on patreon. I haven't seen any of their other show reactions. But as it's gone on I've also found it to be a constant drag that they jump at every chance they get to say what a piece of shit this guy or that guy is. I'm like Stevie Wonder my eyes are rolling so much at the constant fantasising about Carmela divorcing Tony. It's like their entire concept of the show has become Carmela as the "hero" and her mission is to leave Tony, as though that's her life's great destiny and then everything will be complete. Artie is the one that surprises me the most. They just hate him and pour scorn on him constantly, and he's basically a good, normal guy. At a time when his marriage was already breaking up, he made a half-hearted move on Adriana and asked her if she was sure about marrying Chris. L&M of course don't want Ade to marry Chris as he is a violent toxic gangster, but when Artie tried to take her away from him, they start calling him pathetic and disgusting. Meanwhile, when Carmela almost had an affair with the wallpaper guy they were giddy with excitement at the prospect of Carm getting in some revenge-infidelity.

Matthew Smith

Saying "this is one of the best episodes of the show" very often is perfectly understandable when it comes to The Sopranos.

Cole
>>160924562

I’m pretty sure the creator wants you to be heavily against these guys. Or he wouldn’t make them such irredeemable pieces of shit. The way Johnny sack treated his wife this episode makes him seem like a saint compared to everyone else(even though obviously he’s not)

Cole

“What’s next, you get to fuck her for a million!” “He wants to fuck her?”

Clay F

I love The Sopranos. Will there be a poll to determine what (e.g., Mad Men) is reacted to after The Sopranos? Also, can can one of the anime slots be converted to non-anime for a reaction to a non-anime series (e.g., Last of Us S2, Andor S1/S2, etc.)?

JBK405

In season three when Christopher was Made, I said you should keep an eye on Eugene Pontecorvo, who was made at the same time. I said it because comparing their respective rises through the ranks tells its own fascinating story: They were Made at the same time, but Chris has already become an acting-Captain. Eugene, meanwhile, is just another Soldier in Ralphie's crew. Johnny Sack screams that they could put Eugene in to run the Esplanade project if they whacked Ralphie, but nobody else takes that seriously or considers that he could do anything close to the same job. Unlike Chris, we have never seen him mess up or fail at a job even once, but despite this he's still lower ranked and given less respect. It's still worth keeping an eye on going forward.

TalbertInc
>>160924562

Yeah I get that, David Chase was very public, hence the whole season 3 arc. He felt people weren’t taking them seriously enough, so he went out of his way to demonstrate how they aren’t just comedy guys. That doesn’t change that, like breaking bad, this is a show about moral ambiguity where almost everyone is varying shades of gray. Other than characters like Richie/Ralphie/Olivia (and other unspoiled types) who are pure psychopaths, everyone else is a mix. The whole point of the show is to show Tony as he attempts to struggle against his upbringing and other factors in his life, and then the premise is that we see how that affects interactions. Sometimes he does bad things, sometimes good things, sometimes really bad things. Tony is the main character of the show, seeing him change and react to different environments is the whole point. It’s just odd to hate the main character of the so much that every time they do anything you’d go “oh my god just die,” like even before season 3 we’ve already established that Tony is far from the worst that this mob life has to offer. The whole point is his struggle, not just writing him off the entire time halfway through the show. Kinda undermines the premise of the show, no?

Gaboxxy
>>160909797

@Abacus they generally get it when it comes to most shows, which is precisely why I'm having such a hard time understanding why they are acting so morally righteous with this show in particular. It was literally never a problem in other shows. That said, they did seem to open up a bit more towards Tony in this episode, at least compared to the constant dehumanizing of him in previous episodes, so there's at least some hope in that regard.

Cole
>>160924562

Besides season 1 Tony these characters aren’t really Morally gray. Every redeeming quality Tony had he’s slowly getting rid of and becoming even worse. At this point It’s not watching to see if he’s gonna change it’s watching to see how far he goes. I can’t think of a single redeeming quality Tony has right now. And I’m just saying this because I have the same reaction to seeing Tony. Ever since he said that shit to AJ in season 2 I could never stand him.

TalbertInc
>>160924562

lol yeah, I couldn’t disagree more, can’t get into it really without spoiler-talk though and I’m not doing that to these lovely ladies. I’ll just say I hope you hold the same energy of hating characters for how they treat AJ :)

Gaboxxy (edited)

Comment edits

2025-01-12 01:54:06 It is realistic though because there has always been a lot of nepotism in the Mob, and for good reason: you'll always gonna trust family members more, which is also why a family member was always more likely to succeed the boss. Nevertheless, of course this caused a lot of resentment between many made members even though they know the deal.
2025-01-11 15:01:23 It is realistic though because there has always been a lot of nepotism in the Mob, and for good reason: you'll always gonna trust family members more, which is also why a family member was always more likely to succeed the boss. Nevertheless, of course this caused a lot of resentment between many made members even though they knew the deal.
>>160937036

It is realistic though because there has always been a lot of nepotism in the Mob, and for good reason: you'll always gonna trust family members more, which is also why a family member was always more likely to succeed the boss. Nevertheless, of course this caused a lot of resentment between many made members even though they knew the deal.

Mahni Alizadeh
>>160909797

I think it’s the nature of how this show depicts evil. The more I watch the more I understand that it wants you to dislike these characters. I think the presentation has a lot to do with how they analyze these characters. And don’t forget they do criticize Carmela a lot

Gaboxxy
>>160909797

@Mahni this might be controversial to say, but I feel like a big reason is also the fact that almost no male characters in the Sopranos are conventionally attractive. It's not fair, but people empathize more easily with good looking people, which is why the main cast of 99% of movies regardless of genre is attractive.

Julien

I have consistently rooted for the destruction of every monster in this show. They are all bad people, every single one of them. So yes, I like them on some level of course, but rooting against them is a normal and healthy impulse.

Gaboxxy
>>160924562

@Cole if you can't think of a single redeeming quality that's on you, because he's definitely not pure evil. Like the other dude also said, I can't get into more detail in order to not spoil, but even in literally the last episode there are scenes that humanize Tony. Of course you can also be completely cynical and spin around any positive of him and somehow turn it into a negative (like people that will try to do mental gymnastics to argue that he somehow doesn't love his kids, even when he clearly does even if he's not the best father), but that's something you can do with every person on the planet if you try hard enough, we're selfish creatures at the end of the day.

Gaboxxy
>>160924562

@TalbertInc reminds me of a quote of Hosea from Red Dead Redemption 2 that went something like "I've witnessed the greatest acts of kindness and also the cruelest acts of evil, often times by the same people". We can be highly critical of these characters while also being able to humanize them and root for them to some extent, it doesn't have to be binary. If a show really only had a cast of truly irredeemably characters, then it would flop in the first month because nobody would tune to watch it.

TalbertInc
>>160924562

I agree, I watched this video essay called something like “Tony Soprano: A Man Trying to Change,” which went over how the framing of the show and its premise is fully explored throughout the series. The whole interesting thing is watching Tony and cheering for him as he does good and being disappointed and ashamed of him when he does bad (as he often is of himself). You get to see him battle against his upbringing, his environment, his social circle, sometimes trying to fight against it and sometimes embracing it and sometimes going wayyyy too far. That’s what makes The Sopranos, The Sopranos.

Yarrow

Those freaky old sadistic hitmen and their bizarre, creepy house reminds the hell outta me of Twin Peaks RIP David Lynch