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.Shogun. 1x8 (Patreon)

Published:
2024-08-14 01:00:03
Edited:
2024-08-15 05:01:50
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  • 340517034.mp4

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Content

We were so locked in we got fooled...

Comments

Qhoa

W

BigManSirob

I think the Haikyu fans were the real one that got fooled 😔

GreetswithJudgement

I love when they ask Jack questions! And Brig throwing his pillow at McKay! Peak Gek behavior!

Shadow

Holy, so much heat today

Brittany Mitchell

Haikyuu fans out here simply passing away at this point 😂

Fe

~Mercedeez Lee~

As much as I am waiting on the Haikyuu drop, I was also waiting on Shogun as well. This episode and the next ones are my favourites

Savannah Balderas

I didnt open the app in time for it to be Haikyuu

Ashley K

Brig, the Japanese dialogue is from the era this show takes place. Just like how there's now modern English, it's not modern Japanese that you're used to hearing in anime. Easiest way to think of it is how in modern Japanese, ppl will say "arigato" in a more casual way as "thanks" or "thank you" and "arigato gozaimasu" in a formal and respectable way of saying "thank you". "Gozaimasuru" is that era's formal way of saying "gozaimasu".

Euphemia Isobel

Enjoying the Shogun watch, does anyone know if they are still planning to do Dark later?

JuancaMX

When Toranaga says that Hiromatsu "knew his duty well" I think that implies that he knew he was sacrificing himself for Toranaga's plan.

MateoP

10/10 show 📈💯

nans

so many amazing scenes this episode the acting is just so good

jrnoodles

chai does mean tea, Brig mixed chai and matcha

MADHOUSE
>>146487390

Exactly. Just to add on, it's almost like Shakespearean English. Except, in Japanese, the use-case is more situational and always about formality. An example in this episode of informality would be when Mariko addressed Buntaro with "omae-sama", which btw is very disrespectful especially coming from a woman of that era. While, with modern Japanese, people can say "omae-sama", they just say "omae", which again is disrespectful. You will often hear people who are close to each other use this though: like from friend-to-friend, or father-to-son. Getting off tangent here, but the "-sama" honorific is used for very respectable individuals or deities, like God, royalty, and even customers. Why for customers? Because in Japan, you treat customers with utmost respect (omotenashi), and there is even the saying, "customers are Gods". It's also the root honorific of "-san".

DAI
>>146487390

To be more precise, "Arigatou Gozarimasuru" is a polite way of saying "Arigatai Koto Desu", which means "It is a rare thing to happen." in a literal way(that's how you thank in Japanese language). "Arigatai" means "rare to happen", "Koto" means "a thing" and "Desu" is "is". To be more even pricise, "Arigatai Desu" is a polite way of saying "Arigatai Koto Da". And in ancient(?) Japan, "Gozarimasuru" was the polite way of saying "is" like Ashley mentioned (but we don't use it nowadays so that's why you only hear these in this show). You see, there are so many way of using any auxiliary verbs or helping verbs to express the politeness in Japanese. "Da" -> "Desu" (-> "Gozaru") -> "Gozarimasuru" for example. And most of them is formed in the same way so any polite verbs used in that era sounds like "~masuru". The reason you hear "~masuru" mostly from Mariko is because she is a female(you already know how the "female role" worked back then) so she must be polite all the time. That's also why, for example, Yabushige only says "~masuru" to his uncle or to Toranaga. "~Dattebayo" from Naruto is a made up version of this kind of verb structure by the author.

MADHOUSE

Imagine being Buntaro in this episode, trying to mend the relationship with the wife but in turn getting verbally decimated, having to behead his highly respected father, and now following who he thinks is a lunatic lord giving his life up for nothing. Not saying he's a good guy, but damn... that's tough

DAI
>>146487390

Nonono. You think "Omae sama" means disrespectful because of the modern use of "Omae" but actually, "Omae" is a very very polite way of addressing someone. "Mae" is a polite way of addressing someone in Japanese, and if you add "O-" to it, it will become even more polite, if you add "-Sama" to that, oh boy, it's way too polite lol.

James

Toranaga is a master manipulator and strategist, and the brothel lady from the last episode was the first to suspect that Toranaga was planning something behind his surrendering.

DAI
>>146487390

Okay, some correction(I wasn't in the "Omae-sama" scene when I wrote above). The thing I explained is true, but I think she was referring Buntaro as "Omae-Sama", in the ultimate polite way, in a sarcastic manner. That's why it sounds disrespecful. By combining the ultimate "Omae-Sama" and "I just wanna get away from you.", it makes an ultimate sarcasm lol

7thdilemma

Some added detail from what I remember of the book, where it's a bit more clear to the reader, some of the necessity of Hiromatsu's seppuku is that he is taking the task of challenging Toranaga's decision to surrender entirely upon himself. Doing so through his death essentially assures the loyalty and obedience of the other generals for Toranaga. "Do you all doubt your allegiance to me?" ... "Quiet! This is between me and Lord Toranaga." Again if I'm remembering correctly, I think it might be implied in the book that Hiromatsu did still believe Toranaga has a plan even if he nor the author ever confirm so, but it's certianly never shown that he knew any of the details for such a plan. That second part is entirely by design because ultimately all that matters is that he saw what was needed from him to serve Toranaga. If Toranaga has a plan, it must hinge on everyone believing he has given up. And if Toranaga does not have a plan, he must still maintain order among his vassals so he may call on them the moment that he does. "Then Lord Hiromatsu..." "my old friend... knew his duty well." Imo, I think it also makes the most sense in show that Toranaga did not tell Hiromatsu anything as from a writing perspective it would mean far more for Hiromatsu's character to have made that decision on his own, as well as meant so much more in that moment for Toranaga to be commiting to his decision right then.

Jennifer

Lady Ochiba was Taikō’s concubine and the mother of his heir, while Lady Daiyoin was his official wife. In the original novel, although Lady Ochiba hated Toranaga, she could never fully let go of her feelings for him, even after marrying Taikō. She also strongly disliked Ishido. Before she died, Lady Daiyoin called Lady Ochiba to her side and advised her to marry Toranaga to protect her son. Lady Ochiba followed this advice and secretly proposed a marriage alliance with Toranaga. Additionally, Toranaga's brother planned to betray him not only to gain control of Kanto after Toranaga’s death but also because, like Ishido, he was interested in Lady Ochiba. The relationships between characters in the original novel are even more complex, featuring many intriguing romantic entanglements.

Alex

😐 “I would have to divorce her” 😭😭😭 why was that the funniest statement Im rolling

Killua X

I read some crazy comment online somewhere from someone who read the novel that I will not be able to even summarize but it made me appreciate the scene in this episode so much more. There's so much more to the Hinatsaru (sp?) scene than most think. I heard one of the requirements for the actor of his character was to be able to have a conversation with Toranaga with only his eyes.

Killua X
>>146491438

yeah in the show they are saying "cha", or "matcha" as in the matcha green tea we still drink today

Joydan Bri’an

the acting and writing 10/10 when hiromatsu told buntaro that he will know what it means to be denied, i literally went 🙂‍↕️🙂‍↕️ lmao then toranaga and hiromatsu had me tearing up like he was a real one

emma.bean

This show is just gorgeous

Enma

Absolutely an amazing episode and the scene with Hiromatsu committing seppuku was so well performed. I also agree with Carter, I don't believe Hiromatsu knew Toranaga's plan, but was able to figure it out. During the part where they were signing their lives away, a few of the advisors started to protest. Hiromatsu knew that this would lead to infighting or pointless internal conflict, as most of Toranaga's men believed there was a secret plan. To convince Osaka (mainly Ishido) and Toranaga's men that Toranaga had completely surrendered and been defeated, Hiromatsu took it upon himself to become the sacrifice that would cement Toranaga's defeat. It was crucial that Hiromatsu be the one to commit seppuku, as he was Toranaga's closest, oldest, and most important friend, advisor, and clansman. This act would eliminate any doubts about Toranaga having a hidden plan. This is where I might be reaching, but here’s how I want to interpret it: There is very subtle facial acting between Hiromatsu and Toranaga; it feels like there are two separate conversations occurring. One is verbal, where they try to convince and deceive their men, and the other is non-verbal, with their eyes conveying that this is necessary and serving as a final farewell. There are also subtle movements of Toranaga's mouth and head. At 49:43, it looks as though Toranaga gives Hiromatsu a nod, almost as if signaling him to proceed or as a farewell and thank you, while they both maintain eye contact until Hiromatsu's head is cut off. I believe the eye contact represents their unbroken loyalty, trust, and understanding for each other, while also serving as reassurance and a show of resolve.

Mysterious Figure
>>146487840

I keep seeing you mention this again. Where did you get this info? Just interested in your source since I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere else but from you.

stu

Hiromatsu scene got me. Such a good episode.

Shadow
>>146487840

They said that was potentially what they were doing in the comments of the first shogun post or the final poll with the shows. They said something like “dark next and potentially a quick pit stop at Chernoby” I forget the exact words

Shadow

Mariko is ruthless😂

Albin Limani

This was an amazing episode. Also, for the next show after it, I think daredevil would be perfect. It is an amazing show and with the next season coming out next year, it's the perfect time.

JC

Toranaga didn't see it coming, Hiromatsu realized that the other lords wouldn't sign it so at that moment he made sure the plan continued, and they both knew they couldn't back down

MateoP

Chernobyl another 9/10-10/10 short show 📈

Sasha

With that kind of a doorbell even door to door salesmen would be a thing to wait for😂

Jonoridge
>>146559969

Great comment and I agree. Shogun is such a great show. It's incredible that a fantastic piece of art like this can still exist in a TV/Movie world where shareholders are being served before creators. Props to FX for backing this project.