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Vinland Saga 2x12 "For Lost Love" - reaction & review (Patreon)

Published:
2024-02-09 13:32:16
Edited:
2024-03-25 14:12:14
Imported:
2024-06
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Google Drive Link posted below description!


Hey everyone!  Here it is - my reaction to season 2, episode 12 of Vinland Saga!  WOW you guys!!!!  I knew things must be headed in this direction, but it was still sooo hard to watch!
Olmar quickly learned he was not a killer, unfortunately he didn't realize it until it was too late.
Thankfully Thorgil was quick enough to catch onto what was happening, and now the're all fugitives, awesome!  Canute, why'd you have to go after this particular farm?!?!!?  Whyyyyy :(
Now our stories are really starting to intersect, dang!!!!  Great ep!  Enjoy!  ~ MH


Google Drive Link: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1HXAVrOUQ8-44qQE1BQ7K3bxfuCt3-tU7/view?usp=sharing

Comments

Manny

Thanks to Thorgil becoming excited for “the beginning” of a battle and the display he put on, along with Canute’s final dialogue in this episode, it makes me understand where Canute’s head might be. It makes me know more about why he got his brother out of the way—at least a little more than before. I don't want to talk the poisoning of his brother down to “that's how brutal life was back then” because, seeing as how good their relationship is, it doesn't sound like he had intended malice. We can see he knows what he's doing, but I see authenticity when he's at his brother's bedside. It's like this has to happen. It has to be this way. It made me uneasy, but I couldn't tell if he was becoming a tyrant, and still, who can say, but I think I see and understand better. Remember the priest last season who got held captive along with Canute and Ragnar in Askeladd’s journey? He's the man who developed a love for alcohol and relied on it to get him through the journey with all those rough men. He tries to explain love, and they don't get it. Some even try their hardest to guess what he's talking about. In the episode where “Canute awakens,” he has a vision of Ragnar wishing him a last farewell. He wakes up, and the priest can see he's had an enlightened experience. The priest recognizes he's had an enlightened experience but ultimately says what Ragnar and he shared was not love but discrimination. Keep in mind this was an unexpected take. Seeing Ragnar's love for Canute made it hard to grasp where the priest was going with this outlook, but at the same time, even though I don't want to say it's an absolute thing, it's one of those fleeing moments you can understand where he's coming from. He's not saying this to Canute with malice, and it's something he also hopes to attain one day. At the beginning of episode 14, the two brothers try to explain how having each other's backs can be seen as love to the priest. The priest asks if they would be willing to have his back if they were to enter a battle together. One of the brothers says no because he's nothing to them. And the priest responds that it is not the same thing as love. It's a complex concept to grasp, but he gives a universal outlook to Canute as a response. I remember your reaction when he's explaining how Ragnar’s love for Canute was not love. It wasn't evident for many. Many see where the priest is coming from yet have difficulty grasping what he's getting at. And it is a difficult thing to grasp, so no worries. I am also just guessing. I watched the movie Noah (2014); it was eh, but the message came through at the end: Thorgil’s excitement for what's to come reminded me of this film. And Canute's final dialogue at the end brought me to that episode with the priest in season one. This episode tells me he's not becoming a tyrant (at least he's not trying to) but setting out to do what he said he would when he had that realization back in season one. It's just that Canute seems more wicked because his demeanor has changed since we first met him. In the movie, there is a lot of evil in the world: pillaging, raping, animals thrown and torn apart, and just a whole lot of evilness. God tells Noah to build an ark and take two of each animal. He chooses Noah because he has the fortitude to complete heavy tasks. They're on the boat, and Noah explains once the rain stops, they will find land and will not repopulate. They will be the last humans. When he grows old, the children will bury him, and this continues till the last son is left. Because of the evil that man has brought onto the world, Noah was tasked to make sure he got this done because he claims God knows he's the only one who can go through with it. However, during the months on the ark, his son’s wife got pregnant. He took in this young girl he found, and later, his son and her fell in love. Anyway, Naoh is upset because they defied God's orders. He asks God what to do, and the Creator tells him. He must kill the baby when it comes. In the end, he can't do it. And he's beside himself because he is ready to burn every bridge with his family to ensure God's will gets done. Once the time comes, he finds he can't. Later, Ila (the girl he took in/ his son’s wife) tells him the creator chose him for a difficult task because he wanted to see if man could do anything other than kill. And Noah showed they are capable of more than just that. Why god chooses his methods, I don't know, but there you go. See, before the arc, the world was like Vinland Saga. Fighting is all these men know. At a point in time, this was how people settled things. Killing is what makes a man. Another of Noah’s sons struggled throughout the movie because he didn't have a wife like his brother. He felt he couldn't be a man unless he had someone special. He meets a girl who gets caught in a bear trap, and Noah comes to save his son quickly. There's no time to rescue the girl because many men come, and they have to get to the arc. The son is upset because he met someone good and now feels he can never be a proper man. He hides a sinner in the arc that was hurt in battle. The sinner tells him how he can become a man. Once he's healed, he’ll take over the ark. The boy comes to his senses and kills the sinner, and the sinner tells him, “Now you're a man.” This is what Vinland Saga is like. This is the worst of man. All they know is fighting and killing. “But why is there no love in the hearts of men?” “They say the reason we turned into creatures like this is because our ancestors disobeyed God and committed a sin long ago.” “We were expelled from paradise.” Everyone knows God is the ultimate good; however, we forget how good he is, and it can be hard to understand why he does whatever he does. He wants us to love all. No matter how foul, rotten, demented, etc. And frankly, it's hard. Even the nicest on Earth, in this case, it may be you, Mel, who may show complete love for, I don't know, Buffy. It may be considered discrimination in the creator's eyes. God loves all, but that feat is impossible for humans to reach. We're not angels. And even the most good cannot provide what the ultimate being asks us. It's asking for the impossible. I think talking to the priest was Canute’s last straw. Like you're telling him all this time, the one man who's shown him any real showcasing of love and adoration is not what love is. And all this hideous chaos around is all we have to offer as humans? We're put on this Earth to endure. Still, we never know love, and the only way to atone is to return to the ground. Canute found it unacceptable: “I've had enough. I'm sick of it. What we lost in exchange for wisdom…” 🍎 🐍 “The most important thing…is something we’ll never get back as long as we live. We’ll never attain it. Yet you ask us to seek it? Father in heaven!” *Canute talking to Bjorn, who looks like a demon during his rampage*: “Miserable warrior. You are the farthest thing from love. You have been expelled from paradise. Isn't there any way to end the suffering from your punishment other than death? Are you saying we only exist so that we may be tested and endure?” “Father in heaven! This man's soul cannot be saved through the trials you set for him! Father. I no longer seek your salvation. If you no longer give us salvation, then, with our own hands, on this Earth, we create our paradise.” It's easy to say God is good, but he does things for who knows what. Everything has meaning, good and evil, yet it's frustrating knowing we will never be able to do what he tells us to, even if we give it our all. He can be right there, but it feels like he doesn't bother because we're lost, which seems redundant, and you start questioning the point of anything. So, Canute decided to give them a reason to fight instead of meaningless battles. “There is no meaning to a battle like this. So, don't die. Warriors become my vassals. I shall teach you about when you must fight and against whom. I shall give meaning to your battles. To your life and death. This, in some way, made me feel better about what we saw. He took no lives but showed his numbers, which overwhelmed that man a couple of episodes back. So he's not looking to fight unless it's meaningful (at least, that's what I'm getting from this). And he is still doing very underhanded stuff, but the Vikings were impressive people. I mean, they were the ones that managed many impossible feats. Back in the day, because of terrains and crazy weather, seasons all had different purposes. There was harvesting season, time for war, but no one ever dated to take territory during the winter season. There was no spoken rule about it; it was just wild to go and take on brutal weather, but Vikings just came one day and did it; they're built differently. So Canute has to make tough calls, and this plan to set up Ketil shows he's still willing to get his hands dirty, but it's for that utopia he's hoping to make come true for that lost love that has been lost. “Mock me if you wish. Curse me if you must. I do all of this to create my utopia.” This is difficult because he's done some underhanded stuff, yes, but if I'm right about my assumption of what he's trying to achieve, then achieving such a change is going to mean making tough calls. With him now, he will most likely be on the verge of change sooner than expected. And in a world that knows mostly violence, I can at least see why he's doing all this. The Vikings were a great people but it's one place in time we shouldn't try to go back to. And that makes me feel better about it. I swear this was a lot. This better make sense.

Supermonaman

I love this episode. It’s so good at setting up where things are headed. I think the show as well as the voice acting did a great job of someone that these soldiers delivering the news are not good people. It’s cool but scary that the coin guy can so accurately hit things with coins & with such speed. The guy seems like someone Canute employs for especially shady jobs to make sure things are not easily tied back to him. I like how he calls these soldiers foolish because they are basically being used by the king as well. You can’t help but feel bad for how down and out Olmar is at the moment. It’s just cruel what these soldiers do to him here. They so little respect for people who aren’t strong that they decide to marry loudly mock him to increase his humiliation as much as possible which just sucks although I honestly think most of the people around there don’t care about this sort of thing. It makes sense that they would not be empathetic about the situation because of the society they have grown up with but it’s still rough to watch. However there are almost certainly soldiers in Canute’s army who would be professional no matter what but that’s exactly why these guys were chosen because he needed people who would provoke Olmar on their own. The facial expressions & voice acting especially the screams really sold how much pain and frustration Olmar was going through in this moment it was really impressive from the animators & VA. We know it’s not the best decision but it’s hard to blame Olmar for lashing out especially when they wouldn’t stop laughing & just kept going. Him being et that he can’t be strong because of all the stories of warriors he has grown up hearing as well as just societal pressures is sad because as you said with what we have seen of him he really isn’t that person. You can even more easily see just how unskilled Olmar is when someone who doesn’t even seem that skilled is easily able to play with him in a really brutal way. I love this interaction with Thorgil hyping up his brother because before this I wasn’t sure what his relationship with his family was but after this interaction & episode I could tell that even though Thorgil is crazy he really does care about his family & wants to help them even if he does it in a messed up way. I really don’t like eye stuff so the coin in the eye was really effective. When they helped Olmar kills the guy I started to put things together that they wanted to blame him for that death even if I wasn’t sure of the details. I love the focus on Olmar’s reaction to what he just did & the enormity of taking a life. You could feel his immediate regret & horror/disgust seeing what he just did. I don’t think he really understood what someone being dead/killed meant/looked like until he unfortunately already killed someone. I love how he has this realization/existential crisis as Thorgil is just enjoying the carnage(which was brutal to watch) defending his brother because of the powerful moment of Olmar being covered in blood as his brother fights behind him. It once again shows the horrific nature of war. Their father being at a loss for words makes sense considering what we know about him compared to what other people know. It’s literally a nightmare scenario for Ketil when he’s trying to gain favor with the King. And this is where it all comes together with that one soldier whispering stuff giving us the information to understand that they wanted a way to arrest the family as an opportunity to take the farm by using a law that almost no one listens to. These soldiers thought they had this handled unfortunately for them Thorgil does not take BS like this lying down. The torture scene is rough but it was effective for him learning what was up. I love how he knew something was off quickly because while he might not be as smart as other characters but he’s not stupid. It’s crazy but I love that Thorgil is ready to fight against the king not only because he likes the idea of fighting a strong enemy but to fight for his family even if it’s kind of in a fucked up way. I can’t remember where I heard this but he has a “fuck it, we ball” mentality LOL. There is a bit of a sunk cost fallacy going on with Canute being willing to do whatever it takes to create his utopia. It’s a big insult for the vision of the father he hated to say they are becoming similar. It’s crazy that Leif is helping them escape for Thorfinn because of how dangerous it could be. I love the trope of a character sensing danger on the horizon which was done with Thorfinn here. It’s so powerful to see that Canute has at least to some degree made peace with the fact that people might hate him or mock his dream because he thinks the results are worth any cost. The lost love line is most likely a reference to his conversation with the priest about love in S1 which was such an interesting philosophical conversation & connects to his anger at God for giving humanity an impossible task. Awesome reaction & thoughts. Keep up the great work. :-) <3

kamenriderhime
>>129463282

You make such a great point about Canute here, as surprising as it is to see him do this to his brother, his reasoning isn't malicious or anything. Also thank you for refreshing me on the scene with the priest explaining about love back in season 1! It is a difficult concept, but over time I can understand it a bit more. That's so interesting about the movie Noah! And it kinda reminds me of the story of Abraham and Issac in the Bible. I can totally see how the world in Vinland Saga was like what you described - just all violence and killing. And that's so true, even the ones we love the most (like Buffy!!!), it can almost be seen in like a discriminatory way, as opposed to just true unconditional love like God's. I love that interpretation, that we don't know quite why God's plans are what they are, but they're for a reason, and in this case, Canute is giving reason to the battles. Canute's definitely ready to get his hands dirty to try and change the world, I get that. I definitely agree that Viking times are not ones that would be good to go back to! This made lots of sense!!! Thank you Manny!!! This was so deep and meaningful and intriguing!! Sorry it took me a while to get back to you!!!

kamenriderhime
>>129863615

This was a great one, and I totally felt bad for Olmar! The VA did such a great job. This one really changed my views on Thorgil too!!!! I didn't really know what entirely to make of him but after this I have a newfound appreciation for him. Sadly I think you're right, Olmar didn't really know what taking a life would feel/look like until after, and then it was too late. I was really impressed at how fast Thorgil put it all together too. HAHAHAHAHA that's totally his mentality! Thanks for clarifying about the lost love line, I really like that callback to season 1!! Thanks so much for all your kindness and support!!!! Sorry for not getting back to you for a while, I'm slowly making my way through comments!!!! ^_^