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Poll about Kindle Unlimited (Patreon)

Published:
2022-03-16 21:10:26
Imported:
2022-05

Content

I recently got some numbers about how much I could make on Kindle Unlimited, and WOW.


I'm seeing dollar signs.


It also has the advantage of tapping into an entirely new audience, and funneling even more people to BTDEM.

All of this is extremely tempting from where I'm sitting, but BTDEM isn't just about me. It's about all of you, who are also invested in this.

So I'm like to get a general pulse and idea of what you all think about BTDEM possibly going to KU one day?

Comments

Dan

Does ku mean you remove it from Patreon?

Zero

How would that affect your Patreon?

Matt R.

I like being able to reread stories I love from the beginning to experience the same things in a new context, or just to enjoy it the same way again, and I don’t have an Amazon account or a kindle to use the service for free.

Eduard Marciuc
>>79945918

Yeah they have a rule where you can't have content on other platforms that you sell on there

Gemyma

What does going to KU mean for how BtDEM already works on RR and here? Would you need to take it down?

Summercat

Make some money!

ParadoxicalSalad

Does Kindle Unlimited mean it will be exclusive to KU? If so that may change some peoples answer.

Sean Kenny

Just note that KU has an exclusivity clause, and you won't be able to publish/keep the stories posted elsewhere

Tate Browder

KU is great, but if you want BTDEM to be a story accessible to a ton of people, it’s definitely not the route to go. The exclusivity is a lot, and it doesn’t mesh well with patreon; you’d need to take down patreon posts of the books you’ve put on KU.

Corwin Amber
>>79945918

yes. I believe there can be approximately 5 chapters posted for each book that ends up on KU. So if KU is decided upon, the chapters belonging to the books that become part of KU will mostly need to be taken down from patreon/any other site.

Alex C

Money is money, plenty of ways to keep Patreon people happy. Money let's you have the safety net to keep writing.

Benjamin Medrano
>>79945918

He'd pretty much have to according to the TOS of KU. Mind you, he'd be able to have anything that isn't collated into a volume up here, but so far as I know he'd have to remove the parts that are included in KU.

Que Tea

Personally I'm really hoping you don't, because it's literally not available to people from my country. So for me it'd be an all around loss honestly. It's up to you in the end though, but I'm hoping not.

BagOfWeasels

I have moral issues with giving that company any money. I would be sad that I couldn't read your work any more.

Sean

Personally I read a ton of books on KU so I'm okay with it. I know a lot of series reach a much wider audience when they go to KU but maybe I have the outdated perception on this. I thought KU was actually worse for money and better for publicity. I remember an article from Drew Hayes' explaining it a few years ago and how it was great to grow your audience but not as great in terms of profit. I might be using outdated information though.

Dan

Basically if old chapters have to be removed that's fine but ill be bummed if we don't get advanced chapters anymore

Dan

I prefer serials over books

adam1

I think KU is a good deal overall, and a number of authors I support on Patreon use it. Before it goes up on KU, if you release the chapters in a downloadable epub or pdf for a period, your patrons could get a copy to keep before the exclusivity kicks in.

AntiClimax she her

I use kindle unlimited, and many of the authors I've recently discovered were either directly or indirectly through that. It would probably be worth talking to another author that is on KU to see how the experience is.

Dragonkinn

Does that mean the patreon / discord chapters must be removed?

sqeesqad

Going to KU means not posting advanced chapters here anymore, right? In that case I'd say no, because I don’t have access to KU

Reid Palmquist

It's unfortunate that you have to take content down to comply with KU, but what I've seen a few other authors do is put each volume up for a year / couple years which is the period when I understand you typically get the most our of KU (I may be wildly misinformed though) and then bring them down off of it, eventually allowing you to make the content available elsewhere again if you wish.

Adrien Matricon

Personally the reason I use Patreon is so that authors can make stuff available to everyone for free and still make a living out of it. If publishing on KU means paywalling the novel forever then I'm against it (and will stop being a patron), but if it doesn't affect what's on RR or only temporarily then go for it

Vector

remember selkie can still post on Patreon depending on the contract. They Just can't post anywhere free i think. I know several Authors that post on patreon and unlimited

Dragonkinn
>>79946560

Then as bad as it sounds, I would probably drop? I cannot be bothered to go hunting for things constantly. I've got my 12-14 books where I get chapters on patreon and the rest off of royal road or wuxia. Adding more is probably not for me, I'm old.

Joshua Little

Do what makes business sense.

Daniel Tickle
>>79946642

Any chapters in a book posted to KU, except maybe some sample chapters, have to be taken down from elsewhere. So if Book 1 was put on KU, book 2+ could remain in other locations. When Book 2 goes up on KU then it would need to be removed from a Patreon, RR, etc.

Joshua Little
>>79946560

I think just the published books' content. New chapters would stay up until published I think.

S T

While I hear good Things abour KU from some authors your Story would bei listed as a stub on Royalroad. I curently dont have those displayed in "Popular this week". In the end it ist your choice even if I prefer it the way it is right now. Might be possible to add the Infos abour rrl in the description on Amazon/Audible. Also please Update your postchapter description. Today I bought book 5 on Audible after it was recommended, Not from Info from you. I thought i missed it but rrl only has links to the first 3.

George

the money is well worth it

Michael Buchler

Do what makes the most business sense!

Katherine

I pay on Patreon to keep novels free and open. If you move over to kindle unlimited, you can kiss my viewership goodbye as well as much of the viewership your novel currently has. Like signing up with Webnovel, many see the dollar signs you *could* make and ignore how much most novels on paywalled platforms make in actuality.

Julie

I personally am not going to use Kindle Unlimited. If I will still have access to this novel on RR or Patreon, then I’m fine with whatever the author wants. If going to KU means neither of those options will be available anymore, I’ll have to drop the novel.

David Brims
>>79946316

This sounds like an excellent workaround to keep your Patreon subscribers, I like it.

HeartHawk

I support going to KU but like many others its important to me personally that there is some way to consume the content for free as it was initially published. I don't think I'd drop as a patron but it would make me sad.

Chad L.

I have read a LOT of KU, so I think it is a good way to expand readership. But, I have always wondered about how much money per read actually goes to the author. Personally, I am happy to risk a direct buy of, say, 1.99 on an unknown author with an intriguing story blurb and decent reviews. If you price your stories right, you may be able to get the best of both worlds. This should AFAIK give you more control over allowing your stories to be posted other places, eg. RR and here.

WritInSpace

My understanding is that KU requires that you do not post the KU published sections of your story for free elsewhere (beyond a few sample chapters). It seems likely to me that anyone who's currently following the story would have already read the portions that you post to KU, which means that you aren't necessarily harming any current readers on RR. Anyone paying for chapters on Patreon would also be unaffected, as we're paying subscribers. That means that your decision should be based on: A) will KU give you a larger audience going forwards than just RR/Patreon? B) will existing followers be annoyed that their platform of choice no longer has the full story available? If you remove the published chapters from RR, you could probably avoid a reasonable amount of discontent from current readers by providing a way to download the unedited story so far (ebook?), then remove it once you're ready to publish on KU. It's definitely the right path to ask them what they think (as you are here). For future readers, it's probably worth looking at other stories which have made the switch, how their reader numbers were affected on RR, and whether KU was able to offer enough value to offset that loss. In the end, your ability to create content going forwards is what's important. That requires two things: people to read your content, and funding to create it. If KU gives you more financial safety than your current sources of funding, and people are satisfied with how they can consume your content going forwards, that seems like a win. One thing: you may want to create an author website which directs people to where they can consume your content, and maybe give your Patreon subscribers a better platform to read on. Patreon is great for managing subscriptions and such, but it isn't a great platform to read content like yours on.

Khanalas

>All of this is extremely tempting from where I'm sitting, but BTDEM isn't just about me. It's about all of you, who are also invested in this. Lol, sure, but you're the one whose family and child are taken care of with this book's money. Not to mention that you'd need to create a safety cushion for when you'd move on from BTDEM.

OlivierA

Personally, minor annoyance of not being able to easily search for a plot point by googling RR. From a business perspective, you’ll lose the readers who would have discovered you through the free content on RR and switched to Patreon.

Rhaid
>>79946560

The newer chapters would still be on patreon, but you would lose access to anything that has been published on KU. SO current book and maybe the previous would be on patreon, the rest taken down.

Guthan

Doesn’t KU force you to take off your work on Royal road? You would lose a large chunk of fan base.

PlasmaticPi

If it makes you have an easier life while writing go ahead!

Rhaid

I am in the KU camp, it brings you a lot of benefits and you are still able to drop a PDF/EPUB file of the book that is about to be released for your patreons before taking everything down. A lot of comments are all doom and gloom, but it appears that a lot of them do not know how KU really works and what needs to be taken down.

Scruffleupagas

Be aware that amazon has suspended authors in the past for pirated work posted elsewhere, taking weeks sometimes to get reinstated. (Due to KU exclusivity requirements)

snowshoes1818

So the TL;DR is: Do what makes sense for you, but what makes sense for you probably doesn't make sense for me. --- I love books. I still buy real books - lots of 'em. I support lots of serial authors. But I am one of a small number of folks who refuses to purchase **anything** from Amazon. [As far as I am concerned, Amazon is a plague. Its wars with publishers around the world to maximize its own profits (i.e. Hachette in the West, Kodansha in Japan) have hurt authors, publishers, and consumers. Its anticompetitive practices in other spheres, well... there's more to be read about that every day.] Amazon exclusivity means I cannot reread old chapters of serials - or purchase books from authors who choose that route for initial publication. Too bad for me, right? Yep. I like to review serials since I forget names/events. The inability to do so is frustrating. Why keep up when I can't... well... keep up, right? Thus, the embrace of exclusivity has led me in the past - and would lead me in this instance, too - to end my Patreon support and any further reading of the serial in question. That all said, again, do what makes sense for you. I suspect you will find more than enough new readers through Amazon to recoup potential exiting readers like me.

Jack Stiles
>>79947024

If I find story online and its just first 3 chapters and some later chapters because its on Kindle Unlimited. I usually just ignore it and don't bother giving it a shot. While it seems great, kindle money an audience will probably bring more people in.

Apiris
>>79947091

This isn’t a fair take. It’s fine to talk about yourself dropping, but plenty of KU authors do fantastically on Patreon. Look at Defiance of the Fall or He Who Fights With Monsters as massive success stories. They charge $10 for their full advanced chapter list, though. KU realistically gets far more reads than offering something for free on RR. It would impact people coming into the story for the first time but not anyone currently caught up unless Selkie does something extremely unexpected.

Robert Nolan

I know several authors who have gone both ways. What they tell me comes down to this. If you are making more than half your income from Amazon already, it will help you get the people who are on the fence to pick it up. If most of your readers are coming from other sources it will likely be a net loss unless you put a lot of effort doing your own promotion. KU offers no support and means you can't reach out to many outside support networks so it is all on you if you go this way

PJ LeBlanc

It makes economic sense to do so, so I've voted yes. I would ask that as Patreons no longer have access to historical chapters, you give $5+ tier patrons free-copy codes or an epub that can be downloaded (preferably from Kindle) of any books that go to KU - i.e. as long as the Patrons are economically as rewarding as actually going and buying the books to you, you shouldn't make them purchase the same content twice.

Katherine
>>79947091

>KU realistically gets far more reads than offering something for free on RR. It would impact people coming into the story for the first time but not anyone currently caught up unless Selkie does something extremely unexpected. How does this make any sense to you? Something for free initially will almost always make way more money in the end than something paywalled from the start. Freeze things gives everyone the chance to experience it. Look at, for example Counter Strike: Global Offensive before and after going Free-to-play or studies on piracy in video games. That's before we get to the parts of the world that cannot afford to pay or are unable to pay the paywall. Novels should stay free and open for the sake of us who cannot afford things. Same reason I support Piracy.

Nematrec

Going KU means needing to take down all other postings of the work published on KU (except for a 10% "preview"). That includes patreon any chapter of the published book on patreon. Any of your faithful patreons who want to reread your book will be forced into the Amazon environment

Daniel Sifrit
>>79948246

FWIW the big publishers don't have expensive NYC offices because they pay authors as much as they can. I was a VERY early e-Book adopter (pre-Amazon - I rode three different formats and providers all the way down) Can't blame Amazon for their demise, in fact Amazon kept one going a bit longer by adopting their format. (Kindle is the same as Secure Mobipocket) Amazon has allowed a TON of new micro-genres to flourish because they do pay the authors better in the end. (not KU, that is a different topic) -- If you are into Gamelit then you can thank Amazon's self-pub model for the huge number of books now available. Trad pub STILL screws their authors over, especially for ebook versions - which CANNOT BE RESOLD. There are books I have on my shelves that are 10+ years old and in paper -- but the ebook costs at LEAST trade paper if not HC price. Keep in mind they have ZERO overhead or production costs for e-Books. I can buy any Ian Banks book used for $3 or less locally -- but its $10-12 for a non-transferrable e-book. (Trad pub has resisted ebooks since day one) I used to help moderate the SFWA official forums, both pub and author sides. (this was around when ebooks were VERY new) I know both sides, and IMHO Amazon has leveled the field more than anyone else ever has. If an author does really well on 'zon they can pitch to trad. That said, I am not a huge fan of Kindle's business model even though I use it and quite a lot. I agree that its a pain when stories have to be pulled from RR and elsewhere. I still buy any books I really like - especially if their price point is less than $5.

Philip Pleiss

Going to Kindle Unlimited eventually sounds like a very wise decision. With some caveats. From what I understand, it depends on the publishing terms. Some authors get mad because they lose exposure when Amazon requires they remove it from other sites. Others think it is the greatest thing since sliced bread. Overall though, the most important thing is that you, the author, Gets Paid™. Writing for the adoration of the masses is cool and all, but an author that can pay their mortgage without stress is an author who has more time for writing.

Hauke Winter

I don't like the part where you have to remove chapters from RR because of KI exclusivity. This could prevent people picking up the story through RR.

Archivist0

If you have time look at Johnathan Moeller's podcasts regarding his experiments with KU vs multiple platform publishing. He of course has the advantage of being an established author with a lot of content. http://www.jonathanmoeller.com/writer/ If you decide not to go to KU or even if you do I would suggest you drop the price on Volume 1 on Amazon to either .99 cents or free.

rintaun

I'm not a fan of KU's exclusivity clause - I give Amazon enough money as it is and I don't like the vendor lock-in of KU from a reader's perspective. Because of that, it's always really frustrating when I come across an interesting-looking story only to find it has been taken down for KU. I'm sure I'm missing out on some great books, but honestly, if I didn't come across your story until it was on KU, I would most likely never read it. That said, I'm not going to stop supporting you just for taking older content to KU, so do whatever makes the most sense for you.

Keith Symcox

You'll have to determine which is better for you long term. My last understanding of the payout for a KU book (from Ilona Andrew's blog) was about $1.75 per copy. I realize that your books are longer than hers, so your mileage will vary. With Amazon taking their 30% of your $5 book, you are making about twice that, so you will need to grow your audience by a factor of two to break even. Complicating that is the exclusivity, which may require you to remove content from Patreon, where you are making $11k/month. That may very well cause lots of drops. Say it drops by half, then you will need to grow your audience by another 2k readers per month to make up for the income drop just from that.

Muspellsheimr

I have significant problems with Amazon and Kindle Unlimited exclusivity. I immediately stop reading and end all support for anything published there.

Taksu

Tough call you lose exposure in everywhere else than amazon ku. I don't pick stories that have most chapters removed for example in rr. I downvote flying commercials since that's the husks they are. Also massive job to clean stuff away and that also includes patreon which makes rereadability kinda suck unless I start making manual backups.

Aram Ibrahim Camps

Tbh, if I hadn't become a patron I would say go for it without hesitation. As it is now, I would still say to go to kindle but leave a window of time for people to reread, make sure they have everything they wanted to keep, etc... (I think I sound like an entitled little fck)

The Softies

with kindle unlimited being rather... limited.. in where it is available, I'd vote no.

Jak

I vote yes. Give KU the first 3 months, give people 3 months to read thru BtDM on RR

Matthew Dennis

If you can make more money on KU then thats a strong option, however there is something to be said for exposure. I would have never found your story if not for RR and thus never patronaged you. If you move to higher value lower visibility you run the risk of losses over the long term as new people will find and love your story and contribute. Im not sure how many new people will come to KU

merr49

You do realize this will detract from non KU amazon users because ku is like the bargain book labels it doesn't make your work more appealing. Not to mention the covers will get the kindle unlimited sign attached reducing the visible cover image. But I have nothing against authors who go that way. Enjoy the tough decisions ;-)

Apiris
>>79947091

Amazon’s market share is higher than RRs by absurd numbers. Being on KU is a meaningful bump on Amazon rating and review numbers due to the low barrier to entry, which tends to snowball. For someone bought into Amazon’s ecosystem, KU is ‘free’. There are many people that read ebooks from without jumping to web serial platforms like RR because ebooks are a preferred reading experience for them. The price hurdle of 3.99 for a single book vs 9.99 for however many they want to read is a major roadblock. For niche genres, KU gets you a massive library and causes more and more authors to look into opting in. Litrpg is one of the genres that does much better on KU due to its large presence there. You are absolutely right that there are parts of the world where KU is prohibitively expensive. That doesn’t really change the numbers though. Especially if the existing users are still getting content for free on RR since they are caught up.

Apiris
>>79955018

I don’t think I agree. Yes, KU has a lot of low quality books. It also has things like Will Wight’s Cradle, which is hugely popular on Amazon.

Savid

genuine question, how are you going to bring in new people to the fandom? I don't feel like the first few chapters give off the full feeling of what's going to happen in the series; are you going to write a new story at the same time like Melas is doing with salvos, or will you rely on new fans from kindle?

Jon Lundy

You will probably make a lot more money if you go KU. You will get the extra exposure from KU and be associated money. A percentage of those will go to RR and a percentage of those here. Shirtaloon’s patereon went way up when he went to KU. If it doesn’t work for you, remove the books after 90 days.

Allora Lee
>>79946239

I don’t think KU’s exclusivity covers unpublished books -even if the rest of the series is on KU. I think it would just cover what is published

Allora Lee

Ah I clicked do what you want, but once the rest is paywalled I probably will stop being a patron. A big reason I do this is so that others can still enjoy it without paying.

Jon Lundy

Also talk to some other authors. You will lose people if you go KU but I strongly suspect you will gain more.How well books do in KU varies by genre, and this genre is heavily KU.

Rhaid
>>79955812

Something that has been brought up on discord is that this story has kind of reached saturation on RR, whereas KU is a newer market

Lowe K. Lyesmith

More MaNgOeS is always the preferable option!

Hoshi Boshi

I'm not too sure what KU entails, but if it is the exclusivity deal then I'd say no. I've always hated the dreaded stub, especially those with patreons, it's like a kick in the gut.

fbt

if KU is a significant improvement to your financials, you should do it. My understanding was it was generally far, far less than you're making via RR/patreon, but if that's not true, welp! I'm no fan of amzn, but the pub indu is constantly evolving, and I don't think anyone can honestly fault you for having to go where the money is...wherever that is atm. It'll probably continue to change (one hopes! much of the change has been positive, afaik, with far more authors earning far more money than in the past).

bob barker

I refuse to read on a kindle. You do you, though.

Andrew Moreton

Kindle unlimited has introduced me to several authors being able to read some or all of their books for free has lead me to read books I would not otherwise have tried . Some I abandon and never look at that author again others if I like the authors style I then buy the books in future.

Jo

I'm sure others have already mentioned: If you put a book on KU you have to take down the free version on RR. I personaly don't use KU anymore because after a while it always recommended books I already read on it...........and most books I read on ther weren't particulary good. Though I have discovered 2 Author through that that I really like but the vast majority? Just no. Edit: Someone mentioned that for KU exklusivity you'd have to take down your content not only from the free website but also from here. If that happens I'll jump ship. Thats just a hard no from me.

Artman

I buy the books for the discount on the audio. You will lose a bit when people just get the KU for the discount, but don’t read it. Ultimately how much more will you make.

Aaron Stewart Nagy

I voted do what you want but personally i would just make book 1 free on amazon.

Abhorsen

This is 100% about you, not us. You are making the product, we are paying through a variety of methods to read it. Do what benefits you. Too often people put others before themselves, and others just leave them behind. It's not greedy, it's looking out for who really matters in your life: you and your family.

SelkieMyth
>>79947143

I should've made stuff clear! You will still be able to read stuff on RR and Patreon... as long as you don't fall 6 months (or some other really long time) behind schedule

SelkieMyth
>>79947161

It's why I've resisted so long going KU, but holy, it's apparently hundreds of thousands of dollars per year. I hope you understand the siren call

SelkieMyth
>>79948246

Amazon sucks, I agree. Sadly, I need to deal with the devil. If I do go KU -= which is looking likely - I'm going to make sure that everyone has advance notice, and can grab as many epubs as possible from me before they go poof. That way, you'll always have them yourself :)

SelkieMyth
>>79949654

I've had the epub up on patreon for ages - download them! I'll also give people a long heads up before doing it

SelkieMyth
>>79950123

Yes, but I'm saturated on RR. Most people on RR have gotten a chance to read me. KU is an entirely new, untapped audience

SelkieMyth
>>79950740

Yeah, that frustration is why I've stayed away so far. But the sheer potential money is incredibly attractive

SelkieMyth
>>79951228

Progression Fantasy/LitRPG usually gets 80% of their revenue from Kindle Unlimited. That suggests I'd make $14-$24k/month from it, which is obscene

SelkieMyth
>>79951687

I'll make sure to give you enough advance warning to stop supporting BTDEM then!

SelkieMyth
>>79957018

I appreciate that, and it's a lovely sentinment! I'll make sure you have enough heads up, and I don't do it sneakily

SelkieMyth
>>79958870

You won't have to! You can keep reading it on patreon, and if you fall off the train for a bit, "current" chapters will still be on royal road! It's only the old stuff going to KU, and even then, you'll have a shot at the epubs before I move it

SelkieMyth
>>79959411

the *old* chapters I gotta move. The new patreon chapters are still around

Flying Goat

You should do what works out best financially for you - unfortunately, that's unclear. If it forces you to take down everything from your published books from Royal Road (Temporarily? Indefinitely?) that could kill new Patreon signups, and be difficult to reverse. Of course, it could also work out great and increase your income. I'd certainly continue to subscript to your Patreon - can only speak for myself, but my own interest here is whatever makes it most likely I continue to get new BTDEM chapters, preferably in serialized rather than novel format. Edit: My own experience with books that have gone this route is I typically see no initial chapters in Royal Road, and they *never* have any explanation at all as to what is going on or why there are no initial chapters, so I just skip those series. So if you do go the KU route, I think you should have a description of what's going on, and exactly how to get access to the missing chapters.

a passing Fnord

If you go to KU you should do what some authors on RR have done and offer a limited time (usually 24hrs) free copy link for those who follow the story on RR and helped it grow from the beginning before/when you take it down. A lot of people who read on RR do so because they can't spare the money for KU or Patreon, but their sharing and feedback helps stories become recognized and reach a broader audience and they deserve recognition for that instead of feeling like they are being told to get fucked when the story they love becomes unaccessible.

SelkieMyth
>>79966369

Good call! Yeah, people who still follow BTDEM on RR will get to keep reading it! It's only people that fall off the train for a significant length of time that'll get shafted.

aqa

Voted no, for 2 reasons. I don't think it's a very fair poll, since it doesn't really explain the consequences. If that was explained, or even asked "do you care about older chapters being available on Patreon", the results might be a bit different. To me, Patreon is a way to sponsor people that create things I enjoy, but that could be difficult to pay the bills with. Like writing a high quality book that is freely available. But if the RR version, and even Patreon version has all old chapters removed because of KU, the reason why I joined the Patreon is removed. At that point I'll start considering my own money a bit more, and probably just buy the books of amazon when they get released for a fraction of the price Patreon costs me.

Tezq Gelrock

You should do what you think is best. Whether or not KU is a positive move really depends on what you want to accomplish. Yes, KU is a totally different market, but it also restricts which markets you can participate in. NOTE: any book you publish with KU will require you to delete all free copies of said book on other platforms (Patreon/RoyalRoad). Though you will be allowed to keep small samples available. The question you should probably ask; Is worth staying on RoyalRoad and other such platforms, and have samples of your books on Kindle? (as things are now) Is it better to have your books available on Kindle and have only samples available for free elsewhere? (inverse of how things are) I personally have a KU subscription because it makes sense for me. So this decision doesn't effect me in any way. That being said it's something to really think about because it has the potential to negatively effect some portion of your current audience.

Anonymous

Feels bad to leave RR right after winning the stabby and even though I’ve purchased the ebook I prefer to read them on RR due to searching through google

Keith Symcox
>>79951228

I completely see that LitRPG is heavily invested in KU, but my understanding of the mechanics of KU is that you will get a fraction of the payout (this month is $39.4 MM world wide) based upon your pages read as a percentage of the total pages read. This is not genre specific, but rather country specific. You would need to figure out how many pages you would need to have read each month to make up the deficits I mentioned in the original post. If it works out better, then go for it. I will say that Ilona Andrews mentioned in her blog that the economics of KU didn't make sense for her, but I realize that she is in another genre (urban fantasy) and has an established name with a major publisher, so I don't know her economic model.

Endoria

*insert random uninformed KU advice*

itzzzzzzon .

Do it! Patreons don’t lose there benefits and those are the only people who you have any accountability to. It’s your story you should do whatever makes the most financial sense.

Chris Studabaker

I voted yes. The KU requirements are that you can leave 10% of the book available on free platforms such as scribblehub or RoyalRoad. So you tease the first chapters of each book and refer the reader to KU for the rest. The KU audience is frankly massive, and being the bibliophile that I am, I read a lot on many platforms, Including KU. The various author groups on KU and the ability to plug other authors in your offerings as well as theirs would offer you a huge increase in readers among any other benefits available. The patreon could easily remain as is, and quite honestly, while I feel for those who can't afford a KU subscription or patreon cost, what you offer is quite frankly, WORTH paying for.

Piotr

I voted for do what you want. It is your story and your choices, we can be only some voice that have some power. However remember that you will have most likely take down chapters also from Patreon as from what I remember, KU does not allow to work to be published anywhere else. Paywall like Patreon does not mater, so not only RR.

BeepBoop

Up to you Selkie. But KU is not available in my country. Not sure what it entails but if it restricts patreon bennefits I might have to reconsider since I am rather poor lol

Cirvante

Well, it doesn't really affect me, so I don't care. This story isn't like Delve for which I often have to look up old chapters for theorycrafting discussions. With that being said, if I see a story on RR that had it's content removed for KU, I discard it. I'm not jumping through any hoops to check out new stories. I can't say how many old patreons or potential new ones it will cost you in the long run, but in the end you'll have to decide what makes the most sense for you in terms of finances and reaching the largest possible audience with your work. As long as I still get the newest chapters on Patreon, we're cool.

eggman

You can do what you want, of course, but it takes me 5-6 months to earn what you earn in a single month here on Patreon, and a large part of the reason I support you here is because you give it away for free, and so that it will be available for others to read who can't afford to buy it from Amazon. Probably if you choose to go with KU, I will stop my support.

kfir with a כ

As an avid user of KU and a patron, i absolutely recommend it. It's a great service and will be both a financial boob to you, a great way to get BTDEM more fams, and a great deal to people who use kindle.

Apoca

I remember reading that Amazon screws over too successful Authors, but I don't know how much of it true. (DaveB from GrrlPower had more than one rant about it about a year or two ago, but it didn't happen to him) And I like to reread the chapters on RR more than here or on epub.

Bacon Macleod

If you want to be the most efficient, and make the most money, I would hold off on KU until you start posting the last book on RR Let’s you fully tap the RR market, and the hubbub of one of the largest RR fics finishing is a MASSIVE boon for marketing the book on KU. Plus going KU would mostly nuke new patreon subscriptions from RR, and you would lose subscriptions for people who take umbrage with KU. You’ve got to factor that in if you want to know the actual net benefit of KU, rather than just the gross. The cashflow of KU would also support you when BTDM finishes. This will lead to a drop in patreon subscriptions, even if your next work is just as good. On the other hand, this means that the loss in subscriptions no longer matters, because you won’t be getting any new ones anyway. Plus having the certainty of comfortable cash flow will take the stress off of needing to write your next hit RIGHT NOW, lest your finances suffer. It would let you take time to plan and prepare for whatever comes next.

Arthur

just be careful, ive read way to many posts about bad experiences with people signing up with KU to publish their books and then totally getting the raw end of the deal, besides if you plan to go to KU, im pretty sure the ban you from posting any content on other sites, just something to keep in mind if you still wanted to post on RR or patreon while writing. its all up to you in the end, just do your research before fully commiting, love your work =D

a passing Fnord
>>79966369

I have reread the full story at least twice. Since I have purchased the books as they become available on kindle, it won't affect me if you have to take parts of it down, but I know there are people who like me will want to reread it but be unable to do so if it is taken off RR. If you offer a chance to get a free copy to those people on RR before it is removed then I'm sure a lot of people will be grateful. Also it may be worth looking into publishing physical copies. I know I would get copies.

Elenda86

you would loose royalroad readers (me) and a chunck of your patreon money, if you think thats worth it then follow your greed i guess

Julie
>>79947143

Thanks for clearing that up! Then I say go for it!

Bbyh

I voted don't do KU, but it's a fairly weak preference

Akatosh117

uhh would patreon stay?

thomas

I am in favor of doing the ku money grab at some point. KU is around 45% of my reading at 100ish books a year. Just watch out for contract shenanigans. Maybe check what the contract length is on ku. A timed run might be a way to assuage some people.

thomas
>>79986329

Selkie has the files posted for download on one of the patreon menus. They would have to pull chapters 30-60 behind or so as they go to novel format but new stuff would be posted as normal and you would keep what you had downloaded.

Alan Clements

If I recall KU comes with some restrictions and the numbers never seem to pan out as well as many authors hope. Since the program started the amount per page has gone down significantly. That being said, it is a great opportunity to reach new people, especially with book 1. It gives potential readers a chance to get into the series without having to ensconced with it from some dodgy website where they’ve gotten it for “free”.

blub01

iirc, amazon wants exclusivity. also, fuck amazon in general. that said, you're the author, do what you want.

Jesse

There are people who do amazingly well on KU. There are people who don't. It's not as simple as it's portrayed, overall. It does favour prolific authors with longer books in the present incarnation.

Daniel

I would suggest talking with other authors like Travis of HWFWM. The other thing would be see if you can compare numbers between that revenue and keeping the book live on RRL and just having it for sale on Kindle? Lastly, figure how much your losing by not having it and find another way of recouping it that way. Like Keep BTDEM Bezos Free! Donate Now! (With some goal amount). Lastly, wtf are you doing? Shouldn't you be writing me my next Elaine fix? Seriously. Some authors these days.

Matti Lehtinen

KU is unobtainium for me and everyone else in my country. I like your story, but this would essentially lock out many countries from ever reading your story. Though if you also get it on Kindle non-unlimited, that mitigates it a lot. But not entirely, a LOT of the litrpg content I'd like to read is geolocked even when not on Kindle Unobtainium. As a previous commenter said, the best time is when you start finishing up that last book or thereabouts. One last thing: you make in a month almost as much as many first-worlders make in a year. Greed is healthy, but too much can breed resentment.

balder harbo

Since I will still be able to read it here it won't make much of a difference for me. And even if I can't read it anymore I won't stop supporting this Patreon as the reason I did it was to support someone with an amazing imagination who made a story that has given me lots of joy and inspiration.

fbt
>>79977673

i need to get a couple of those...

Rui Lourenço
>>79997614

I understand that a lot of people are not comfortable with doing this but just so I can potentially help someone: You can just set up an Amazon account for a country that does have kindle unlimited. You'll need some sort of address on the account but just use a fake one. This works pretty well and I've had no problems with it.

Rob W

I like being able to go back to prior chapters to check things out, or just to re-read the whole story and reorient myself on older events. If I can only do that by giving money to Amazon, I will not, and will probably eventually drop the story. Also, if I can't point someone to the full archive, I probably won't bother recommending the story to anyone. If I were a new reader and saw that most of the chapters were missing due to Amazon's exclusivity clause, I'd just move on. Basically, my opinion is that if you're making a comfortable amount from voluntary donations, keep doing that, because it's much, much nicer to new and existing readers who aren't Amazon subscribers. If you need the extra income, then maybe go for Kindle Unlimited, but I'd ask around with some other authors for the long-term effects of the switch on their readership numbers/trends and income.

pipMcDohl

i voted for you to do whatever you feel like doing. I am boycotting amazon as much as possible. the success story of this company is based on bad practice with their employee as well as massive tax evasion. they are what a mafia looks like when they manage to pretend to stay on the legal side of the law. disgusting. getting money from such a company would get my self esteem to drop in the abyss. But i'm no one to talk since i work in wine production who is just as bad. And yeah my self esteem is all the way down. i wish you better than that.

noëlle

I too have concerns with Amazon, and I think they over estimate the amount you’ll make by a ridiculous margin. However, that said, it’s a financial decision that affects you and your family far more than it affects me, reading ahead on patreon. I think I saw someone mentioning some other sort of donation thing and I’d like to add in maybe having a pay-what-you-want option for a non-amazon ebook via gumroad or something.

Nathan Parker
>>80039499

I know a lot of people hate Amazon, but I worked for Amazon for 6 years in a warehouse starting out putting stuff up on shelves and worked myself up to a support role with a lot of downtime (after hating an assistant manager role in an extremely small building that was extremely stressful and taking a lateral transfer to support), and used said downtime to start an independent retailer business (selling things on Amazon). I quit w2 work with Amazon last year, and I've definitely gained a lot from Amazon. I know my story is not the same as the average warehouse worker, but I honestly think amazon is about average in terms of warehouse employers (though this is a longer conversation), and I've looked into alternatives over the years before my situation stabilized 3 years ago when I started my business about 6 months after getting the transfer to the support role where my job was still important but sporadic. My honest opinion is that not all roles in a warehouse are created equal, and this applies to more than just Amazon, some are just tough as shit physically or mentally while some are cake, and in between. As far as compensation, Amazon has always seemed average-slightly above average to me. I think a lot of the hate towards Amazon as far as work environments points to extreme cases and often mischaracterizations.

Radical

while you might tap into new source of viewers, you're locking out many other ones that you had before, nevertheless, if you see an opportunity go for it, why not go for more money when you're making like 130k a year, no one knows when that flow of cash will stop

SelkieMyth
>>79947024

Podium does a terrible job with their audio promotion... yeah I'll mention it

Bettina

I've got kindle unlimited, so personally I'm fine getting my books there. Regarding the exclusivity clause of kindle unlimited - the alternative would probably be offering the books to buy on other platforms? While they stayed free on royal road? I only discovered royal roads, because I was searching for the latest updates on a book I read elsewhere. So more platforms to get more readers is always a good idea. ;)

Sarasaria

For readers stay on royal road and sell your books on amazon.... like now...

Sarasaria

For yourself... go make as much money as possible... while you can...someday you maybe go out of ideas or have a writer blockade and cant write anymore... from my point of view stay true to your roots and dont give up the fans you made... i know for myself i wont follow to kindl unlimited... so wont read your books on royal road... buy your books on amazon and sometimes make a abo for a month... but in the end all of this doesnt matter... good luck... it was a good time...cya