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AN: I tend to dislike content warnings. I believe they're overused, and tend to spoil what's coming up.

Also, Patreon is terrible about text colors and the like. So I can't format things the way I'd like to. 


With that being said.


HUGE GIGANTIC CONTENT WARNINGS ON THIS CHAPTER. 

This chapter isn't as good as it could be, because researching, writing and editing it made me feel sick.

What they are, and a tl;dr for anyone who wants to skip the chapter: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1KRPMbh6bTdx4uUfmQV3joBCyPe-iZv1yWG5EBszO2Hc/edit

Also, the chapter name is correct. It's a callback. 

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There was more than a bit of fallout from Acquisition getting blackmailed. We all escorted Acquisition back home, then Bulwark hung around Acquisition’s place while the rest of us headed back to Ranger HQ. Hunting gave me my ring back.

After hearing a quick after-action report, Night sent a few Sentinels and Ranger Team 0 to perform some “cleanup” duty, primarily directed by Acquisition.

He knew the gang that went after him. His plan had been: cooperate for the moment, get his kids safe, then either rob them blind - including the entirety of the ransom they’d been asking for - or ask the Sentinels to help him. Either way, his priority had been getting his kids out of harm’s way first.

Fortunately, I wasn’t asked to join. Given what was going on, I think Night knew that I’d be mostly useless, and me standing around grumping at the other Sentinels for what they were doing wouldn’t be great for morale. Or a dozen other things.

[Oath] getting me out of work! Huzzah!

The rest of the day passed in a blur. I was quiet and reserved when hanging out with Autumn, and she noticed.

“Hey, hey, what’s wrong?” She poked at me.

“Killed a half dozen people earlier today.” I grumped back. It was still on my mind, how easily, how casually I’d been able to kill them. A single thought, with almost no effort, and they’d dropped dead. Would I one day kill someone with an idle thought? A moment of uncontained rage? An intrusive thought?

All in all, it didn’t have me in a great frame of mind, which brought me back to the emperor’s offer.

I could retire. I’d never need to work again - well, except maybe for selling the occasional rejuvenation every 400 years or so - and be done with this.

Frankly though, I knew that I wouldn’t stop, I’d just take on different flavors. Plus, I could heal people and-

I was in a bad state of mind, my thoughts endlessly swirling around. Autumn picked it up, and fortunately left me alone.

One other place my thinking wouldn’t let me be was the man I’d healed.

I wasn’t doing any good here. Autumn knew her stuff decently well, and didn’t have any urgent, burning questions. Sure, she still needed to learn a ton more stuff, but she wasn’t having any questions that needed addressing. Auri was well in hand with Plato, and I was just running myself ragged, thinking in circles and casting a dark cloud over everyone nearby.

I swear Neptune was getting less business, as nobody wanted to get near the very high level, very pissed off Sentinel.

I might as well stretch my legs, and do some good.

“Sorry. Having a bad day. I’m going to take a walk, clear my head.” I told Autumn and Neptune.

“Get better, you’re a huge grump right now.” Autumn frankly told me.

I weakly chuckled, and left.

It was somewhat known that I had a stall in the marketplace, and generally provided free healing to people. Heck, there had even been a service to help people get to me at one point!

Well, word hadn’t quite fully spread yet that I was back, and I’d be deluding myself if I thought everyone would know about me. I generally didn’t head over to the slums, but it seemed like I could do some good, even if it was just walking around with [Dance with the Heavens] on full area of effect-blast.

I double-checked that my Deception Ring had me showing at 512. It was a balancing act - did I show up in my full gear, showing my level and status? If I did, people would run, assuming that I had business there, and frankly, most of the time that the powers that be - which I was a part of - came down to the slums, it meant problems for the people living there. It was like a natural disaster, and they wisely kept their head down and out of the way.

On the other hand, if I didn’t, if I set myself to be level 170 and put on a normal tunic, I’d be inviting harassment from practically everyone. A short, pretty woman with a “defenseless” class and a modest level?

Problems by the dozens.

I was in a bad mood. I elected to give myself fewer problems for the day. Most of the people who’d see me and turn around would already be in my healing range, so it was mostly not a problem.

I made my way to the slums, and started walking through them, healing on blast. As I predicted, most people took one look at the stormy-faced Sentinel stalking through the area, and found that they had forgotten an urgent appointment somewhere else.

Bah.

“Ah! Miss! Excuse me, your eyes are most radiant! They sparkle, so much brighter and clearer than the stars in the sky! Just like these gems. My father tragically passed away, leaving me with them, and I was hoping you could take them off my hands, for just a few coins to help me feed myself and my seven children. Their mother has tragically passed away, and-”

Of course, there were a few scam artists who saw a wealthy mark. I glanced down at what the man was offering.

“If you keep bothering me, I’ll start to care enough to tell the guard that you’re trying to pass colored glass as gemstones.” I told him in a cold tone.

He vanished, and I slapped an invisible hand tugging on my pouch. My heightened vitality helped me feel the delicate vibrations.

I blasted Radiance around me, lighting up like the sun, but keeping it entirely non-lethal. The Mirage got stripped away, and a skinny teenage girl looked at me, frozen and utterly terrified.

I sighed, forcing myself to remember what my options as a teenager had been. The risks I’d been willing to take.

Marriage, or trying to survive on the streets as a [Pickpocket]? Thievery, or slavery to a brothel? Easy choices. Wasn’t going to condemn her for making the same choices I had, that I would’ve, just because she was earlier on her journey than I was. I didn’t want to pull the ladder up behind me.

“Normally I’d say shoo.” I idly told the girl, who went even paler and started to sway on her feet. “But instead, I’m going to say shoo, and ask you to tell your friends to not bother me. Unless they’re sick. Free healing. Any problem you’ve got? Just get close to me in the light, and it’ll be fixed.”

She muttered something unhappy under her breath. Something, something, evil Ranger-guards, something. I rolled my eyes.

“I’m blasting a healing skill. Anyone gets near me, they get healed. That’s it. Now leave my coin purse alone.”

She scrambled, and I continued walking through the slums, taking no particular path. Letting my feet wander where they would.

I did end up in a loop a few times, having to deliberately go down super sketchy paths to find my way into new spots. I did buy random nonsense from a few vendors either brave enough to keep their shop open, or more likely, who had enough things that they couldn’t easily pack their shop up as I approached.

It was a bit sad to think about, that I was so feared down here that people tried to get out when they saw me.

I did see a number of kids - I used the term loosely, given that some were older than I was - pop in and out around corners, slowly getting bold enough to approach, only to run back the moment [Wheel of Sun and Moon] touched them.

I was doing some good at least. Atoning, in a sense, for the lives I took earlier in the day by bringing new life to others.

I didn’t have any metrics. No numbers on “kill one person, heal three and I’m fine.” Just a lessening of the frustration with the sheer stupidity and waste of life.

One constant background buzz in the slums was the same as it was in the marketplace, as in the fancy part of town where I lived. Men, who believed they were Almorae’s gift to women, shamelessly catcalling anyone they saw. Remus unfortunately reinforced that somewhat, like that jackass back in Port Salona.

Nobody tried to get too handsy or pushy with me, but I knew I was lucky. I let them fade into the background, their calls darkening my already black mood.

The slums were the bad part of town. Guard patrols were rare - I only saw three in the hours I spent. I broke up a mugging. I watched with a heavy heart, bile rising in my throat, as a leering man grabbed the hand of a young prostitute, her eyes already looking like a dead fish’s.

Legal. Disgustingly legal, and if I stepped in, then what? What changed? What would be different? How could I make it better?

I was feeling sick to my stomach as I noticed a wanna-be thug trying to smash a vendor’s stall.

That, at least, I could fix.

Going to the slums had been a mistake, if I thought I was going to feel any better. My only consolation was the sheer number of people I healed up. That I fixed. Push and pull.

I might not be able to fix all of society’s woes, but I could fix the physical problems people had. One at a time.

[*ding!* [Celestial Affinity] has leveled up! 472 -> 473]

The sun was starting to get lower, and I did have a number of obligations weighing on me. The walk had been good for clearing my head, if nothing else, and I’d been able to meditate on the actions from earlier in the day.

I started to head home, electing to walk. One last sweep through.

Physical stats multiplied everything. Strength was the most obvious one, and speed was right behind it in terms of “well, DUH, it makes people faster.”

Vitality was subtle. Tougher. Healthier. Harder for magic to impact. Better reflexes. Sturdier, younger, helped with illness and disease. Subtly one of the best stats.

Included in it?

Better perception.

I was sitting on over 14,000 points of vitality, which was monstrous by Remus terms. The elves calling me “fragile and delicate” still stung a bit. Either way, among other things, my hearing was greatly improved. Which let me eavesdrop on too many private conversations, and overhear private going-ons in houses.

I generally tuned it all out. I would hate it if someone was spying on me, I didn’t want to spy on others. I did vaguely keep a half-ear out instead of entirely ignoring the rest of the world, because I never knew when danger was around the corner.

Which let me hear the sickening thuds of fists meeting flesh, and the associated screaming.

Pausing just a moment to pinpoint exactly where the commotion was coming from, I snapped my wings open and flew over to the apartment.

The slumlord had elected for no windows at all, and I didn’t want to think of just how hot it had to be in the summer, especially with a cooking fire. I briefly debated burning through the stone, but no. My odds of hitting someone on the other side were too high.

Instead, I flew in through the main door, and blasted my way through the halls, using [Mantle] to politely but firmly make sure that people who’d pressed themselves against the halls to get out of my way stayed out of my way.

They didn’t even have time to see I was a Sentinel - just a heavily armored warrior soaring through the building. Bad news all around.

In no time at all I burst through the main door to the apartment, and took in the entire scene at a glance.

The apartments in this part of town sucked. A single room, a large… I hesitated to call it a bed in one corner, a charred pile in another, a few meager possessions strewn about.

In a third corner a woman cowered, shielding her two young kids. Her left arm dangled in a way that told me it was broken, her lip was split and bleeding, and she had a black eye, before the numerous bruises in all stages of healing were scattered over her malnourished body.

The kids were in only slightly better shape. She’d been shielding them with her body.

And of course, there was the patriarch of the family, who I’d interrupted mid-swing. A level 150 [Laborer].

“Stop!” I ordered as I threw up a [Mantle of the Stars].

“Bitch, what did you say?” The man spat, slowly turning to look at me.

“I said, stop.” I strode over, kneeling down to touch the woman and her kids, to heal them back up. To my disgust I saw that the man’s knuckles were split, and I’d never hated my [Oath] more than I did in that moment.

I’d have to heal him as well, unless he explicitly rejected my healing.

“No, please don’t.” The woman begged at… me? “It’s ok, it’s my fault, I deserve it.”

“Yeah, you hear that? Bugger off. Get out of my home.” The man sneered at me, smashing a fist against [Mantle]. It held. He didn’t have nearly enough strength to break it, or even tax my mana. The two kids looked up at me, terrified. Looking for any measure of reassurance.

“It’s ok.” I whispered to them. It wasn’t ok. Not by a long shot. I gently reached out, and healed the three of them. The youngest started to sniffle, then looked at her dad and bit her lips.

My heart broke. No two year old should be that afraid of their dad.

“Please just leave, he’ll get angry and just beat me more. He loves me, he doesn’t mean it, he just had a bad day then dinner was cold. It was all my fault, it’s ok.” The woman wailed.

“I can take you away from here.” I spoke softly to her, like a wounded animal. She furiously shook her head.

“No, what would I do? What options would I have? How would we live? I don’t want to be a slave. I don’t want Claudia and Secondus to be slaves. He loves me, please just leave us alone.” She begged as she tightly hugged her two kids.

“Are you sure? I’ve got a place for you. You’ll be safe. Ok.” I kept the pain out of my voice, keeping it soft.

She nodded furiously.

“He loves me.” She repeated, like a mantra.

I noticed Dickless punching the [Mantle] again. Be so easy to arrest him for trying to attack a Sentinel.

My mind raced as I processed my options, all of them utter shit.

The first option was the brutal one. I dropped [Mantle]. Jackass took a swing.

I killed him. Easy, simple, defense of a patient.

Then… what? She was in no better of a spot. She was just barely avoiding slavery, her and her entire family. Her kids lose their dad. She’d get sold off into slavery before the week was out. Most likely she’d get separated from her kids.

Her kids would get forced onto the streets, or into slavery themselves. They looked to be two and four.

No two year old was going to survive the streets. A four year old would be lucky to be sold into slavery, but it was possible.

The add-on to that was I ‘adopted’ them, in a sense. Had them live with me, work for me, save them like I saved Themis. It was just a drop in the bucket.

Would she want to live with the woman who’d murdered her husband? Would her kids tolerate being with the person who killed their dad in front of them?

The middle option didn’t exist. The patriarch of the family had complete control, up to life and death, over their family. There was no calling the guard to arrest this… subhuman filth. What he was doing?

Entirely legal. It was Octavia all over again.

And his neighbors could undoubtedly hear what was going on, and just… didn’t care. Or if they did, they weren’t stepping in to stop it.

The last option was to walk away. Before his fragile ego got trampled on any more. Before his rage could build further. I knew what his outlet would be. There was no question what happened after I left.

No, I could… modify the last option. Just a bit. In two small ways.

The first was to make the mockery of a human come with me. Take him on a long, LONG walk, then get a pair of guards to get him to walk even further. Tire him out, such that by the time he got back home, he was hopefully too exhausted to take things out on his wife, and he’d just go to sleep.

Fuck. It was such a stretch, I barely believed it myself. It only kicked the can down the road, and what if he was about to go to work? What if they needed every coin? They already looked like they were on the brink of starvation, what if that just tipped things over?

Fuck it. I’d leave a few dozen coins, that should make up for it. Or maybe I could just pay him to go for a walk.

The second part?

Screw everything. Screw the nice library, screw the mango orchards, screw a life of ease and luxury. Fuck the long-term plans. Forget about doing things the slow, safe, steady way. Not after the day I’d had.

One last option came to me. I continued to kneel next to her.

“Hey.” I called, and her eyes slowly dragged away from her husband, back to me.

“I can take your kids. Keep them safe. Adopt them into my family.” I softly cajoled her, damning myself as I did.

Gods, the options I was giving her.

‘Give up your kids.’

‘Let them get beaten when you’re too broken to protect them.’

Disgust welled up inside of me, starting to override my good sense.

She looked at me, really saw me. Looked back at her kids. They were fixed, healed, but I couldn’t do anything about their protruding ribs. Their torn, blood-stained shirts.

“Ok.” She practically whispered at me, starting to sob as she did. “Ok.”

I tossed my pouch of coins in the man’s direction, feeling sick with myself. I felt like a slaver, although I considered myself anything but.

Plus, the coins weren’t for them.

“42 coins to just take a long walk.” I said, knowing it could easily be a week’s wages. His eyes moved between me, his wife, his kids, and the coins, scattered carelessly around the room.

He knelt and scrabbled for them, like I’d make them disappear.

I grabbed one kid in each arm, looking at their mom. Searing her face into my memory.

Letting the goodbye linger for a moment.

There was a chance it’d be the kids - Secondus and Claudia’s - last meeting, last memory, of their mother who loved them so very much. Who was willing to make the ultimate sacrifice for them.

“Sentinel Dawn.” I choked out, my emotions washing over me, starting to cloud my normally good judgment. “Find me when you change your mind.”

She got some energy and rushed over, kissing her children.

“Goodbye Secondus. Goodbye my sweet Claudia.”

“Bye-bye.” The youngest one - Claudia - said, waving her little hand.

Secondus teared up, and after two aborted tries, choked out. “Goodbye mom.”

Then I left, crying around a lump in my throat as the man continued to collect fallen coins.

It was time for me to have a long talk with Emperor Augustus.


Comments

SelkieMyth

Please note that this chapter could be stronger, but I just couldn't bear to bring myself through the extensive editing process that it'd require

Captdeth

48s chapter is chapter we love chapter

Joshua Case

Can't blame you Selkie, good job on getting through it and writing this ☺️

SelkieMyth

For those that are forgetting - it's been a long time! - Chapter 22 was "Injustice", where Elaine's dad is like "Domestic abuse? We can't touch that, it's completely legal"

Viria

Fuck

Callum Davis

Thank you for the chapter, I was initially concerned when I saw the warning however I’ve spent the last year working in domestic abuse and it alarming to see how jaded I’ve become to this thinking, “huh he only was hitting her not that bad” thank you for presenting this in the way you did to allow me to reflect on myself to take the break from work I clearly need

buca117

The sexism in this story still bothers me. It makes no logical sense: the only reason sexism exist in our world is sexual dimorphism, which just doesn't apply in a LitRPG world. Men are almost always stronger and tougher than women, with denser muscles and bones. However, the difference is, at most, one or two levels worth. In a world where such difference can be made up by killing a few rats, sexism just wouldn't exist. That's not even taking into account magic. When a waif can burn a city to the ground, sexual dimorphism is entirely irrelevant. Really wish Selkie would lay off on this stuff, but at this point its so integral to the world I don't see how they can.

SaltyVigilante

That's true! Except what if women are consistently denied the opportunity to gain levels, are discouraged(read: forced) to take non-combat classes, and the people making the laws have no interest in changing the situation?

Matti Lehtinen

"As long as there are differences, we will tear ourselves apart, fighting eachother. We need one race, one goal, one people, to move forward, to our destiny." -The Master, Fallout 1 What I'm trying to say is that trying to reduce the issue of sexism to the single-factor cause (sexual dimorphism), is a gross oversimplification. People will always find reasons to fuck over "the other". Whether it be race, religion, creed, disability, sexual preference, or gender, there will always be people who want to subjugate others.

Shoto

Selkie, what I can do is praise you for having managed to create this chapter. I've read chapters like these, I've read those that were heavy and made me angry, those that made up everything, making brief reports, simple things that were completed in 2 paragraphs. You've addressed so many issues in society, and in the way that even though Elaine hated it, she had to follow this system for the sake of those she wants to help. And the way you approached it was amazing if we just look at the quality of the writing. Congratulations on being able to create this chapter.

sqeesqad

Aside from what salty said, there still the fact that women get pregnant. That alone would be enough to spark the line of thinking that would've led to the sexism in the world. That, and like salty said, sexism isn't about differences, it's about power and control

buca117

Let's step back in time a little. In our society, throughout our species entire existence, men have been stronger than women. In an age where force and violence dictate survival, that makes men "better" than women. Additionally, men were able to force this "conclusion" on women, as 'might makes right' has been an unfortunate reality in our history. As such, we developed a lopsided power dynamic. It's not morally right, it disregards the less violent things that women contribute to society, but that is where sexism comes from. In Remus, however, at no point in the species history were men and women at any real power differential. As such, the notion that men were "better" would never have developed, so suppressing leveling would never have occurred to them. In fact, given how hostile this world is to humans, they would need all hands on deck just to survive. Can you imagine the survival odds of humanity at the beginning of the world if they willfully halved their fighting potential? It makes no logical sense.

Lowe K. Lyesmith

It's probably positive that Author - sama has problems with thinking about domestic abuse. It's not a nice thing to do, no matter who's the victim.

Cormac

The end of this chapter makes it look like Elaine will use the turn back the clock skill on the Emperor in exchange for women's citizenship. I hope she doesn't. She needs to find another way to achieve equality (or at least a more just society). Immortal tyrants are an awful, awful idea. I appreciate after what she has just seen that it is hard to think about the wider consequences of granting youth to the Emperor, but she really needs to pause and consider things. The fact that he staged a military coup and installed himself as an absolute ruler shows he can't be trusted. He is conniving and power hungry. Just as an example of the possible consequences, if she makes him young again, he will likely make regular trips out of the dead zone to amass ridiculous levels. It would end up being that if the time came that he needed to be deposed, no-one would be able to, likely not even Sentinels. At that point, he could enact literally whatever laws he wanted. He could undo any improvements to women's lives that Elaine manages to get him to implement. Do we know form Iona's chapters how long the Remus Empire lasted? I'm wondering if Elaine granting youth to this Emperor could be the first step in the destruction/collapse of Remus. Edit: at least talk to Night about it.

AKi1red

Took me awhile to figure out what bothered me about the chapter usually you stuff is a female with modern understanding like the talk with the elf about consent and all that so she used to there being this line of respect or treatment 1st world standards. While this chapter felt more just a dislike of patriarchy and look at the wife beater towards the end.how the female teen had no choice but stealing,sex, or marriage then bam dead eyed prostitute and beaten house wife. So you put three options and showed worst examples of two of them...This took 20mins to put into words and is still mostly a ramble.nice thought exercise to start the day ^_^ I enjoy your work have a nice day

Lowe K. Lyesmith

For Remus, a society built in the image of ancient Rome, those differences make a lot of sense. Just because women can be powerful doesn't mean they can fight off everything, since if something is so very ingrained into society, even other women will support the existing system.

Tjark

Really wish people would stop complaining about too much sexism in this story. There are numerous reasons for it that Selkie has mentioned and it sucks that most people just ignore them and say the women should just level then this would stop. Feels like saying women in our world should pick up a gun then they can shoot their husband when he tries beating them to death. Your whole, single argument is that this is a litRPG with stats so both sexes should be equal. Now here are the counter arguments: In this world or rather in this system stats and especially strength works in the way of enhancing what is already there. A man that has worked out his whole life with muscles all oer him could easily be stronger at 100 strength than a timid woman with 150. Of course I don't know exact numbers but you get the point. On the other side we have magic. You say women can just easily learn magic and destroy cities left and right. That's just complete bullshit. Elaine is 350 which is more than double the level most Remus citizens are (ignoring that after 256 a level is worth even more) and has a mage class with fitting stats and can at most melt through a little stone and kill single people with concentrated beams. That's ignoring the fact that you can't just pick up magic skills. You need to actually study it. And how the fuck would women do that if they aren't even allowed to learn how to read. Heck in chapter 4 or something Elaine wasn't even allowed the most basic education about skills because she's female! And lastly the historical background. Humanity has been at war for idk 3000 years or something. And before that humans weren't really in a good position either. You could of course argue, with women in the army you can have double number of soldiers! Which imo is bullshit. That's maybe in a single battle. But after 50-100 years (not to even mention millennia) there will be a significantly lower number of women left. And then where do you get a new generation??? Because the formorians sure as hell won't wait for 3 years until the reduced number of women can produce more babies. Sounds archaic but that just how it is in a world where humans aren't at the top. Now last argument which I admit I'm not quite sure about. Men are naturally more inclined towards violence. In a world where the primary way of getting strong is combat classes which require killing to level up quickly men would naturally be more inclined to get to the top.

buca117

To clarify, remember that, no matter who or what you are, your definition of 'value' will always be determined by what you yourself possess. We are an egotistical species, and as such we are predisposed to value our own strengths over those of others. Men valued strength and violence, as it was what they were good at. Their natural traits made them better than women at those two things. If they were any other traits, sexism may not have developed the way it has. However, because strength and violence are excellent means by which to force your world view on those around you, anyone that disagreed would need to be able to fight against that oppression. If you're part of a group that is perpetually at a disadvantage in that specific area, no amount of logic or reason can get you equal treatment. Thankfully, we have largely moved past using force to get what we want, and as such have been progressively breaking down that flawed definition of 'value'.

buca117

@Tjark The issue people have with it is that sexism is presupposed when it shouldn't be. You and Selkie assume that sexism is somehow intrinsic, and will always develop as a simple function of our species proclivity for tribalism. I and others fundamentally disagree. Sexism is different from racism: racism is a result of our reliance on us-vs-them decision making, while sexism is a result of our heirarchicalism. One is based on fear, the other is based on ambition. That's why sexism has manifested in similar ways all over the world, whereas racism has such dramatic variances. The sexism in this story is a result of assuming sexism would exist and justifying it with excuses like preventing women from leveling, limiting their access to classes, and even choosing to have the stats function as a modifier on natural ability. Because that was a choice: in video games and DnD, the originators of stat-based progression, a female character with 12 strength is exactly as strong as a male character with 12 strength. When calculating damage dealt, there is no gender modifier. Selkie changed the default to justify the existence of sexism, rather than allow her world to develop naturally from its intrinsic conditions.

Matthias Schauer (edited)

Comment edits

2022-03-14 03:23:32 > I noticed Dickless punching the [Mantle] again. Be so easy to arrest him for trying to attack a Sentinel. > The middle option didn’t exist. The patriarch of the family had complete control, up to life and death, over their family. There was no calling the guard to arrest this… subhuman filth. What he was doing? I assume in the second paragraph Elaine means that she can't get him arrested for beating his wife, because as she mentions earlier she absolutely can fuck him over for trying to attack a Sentinel. you might want to work in a justification why she doesn't do that as well, since it would at least remove the immediate danger from his victim.
2022-03-14 03:23:32 > I noticed Dickless punching the [Mantle] again. Be so easy to arrest him for trying to attack a Sentinel. > The middle option didn’t exist. The patriarch of the family had complete control, up to life and death, over their family. There was no calling the guard to arrest this… subhuman filth. What he was doing? I assume in the second paragraph Elaine means that she can't get him arrested for beating his wife, because as she mentions earlier she absolutely can fuck him over for trying to attack a Sentinel. you might want to work in a justification why she doesn't do that as well, since it would at least remove the immediate danger from his victim.
2022-03-14 03:23:32 > I noticed Dickless punching the [Mantle] again. Be so easy to arrest him for trying to attack a Sentinel. > The middle option didn’t exist. The patriarch of the family had complete control, up to life and death, over their family. There was no calling the guard to arrest this… subhuman filth. What he was doing? I assume in the second paragraph Elaine means that she can't get him arrested for beating his wife, because as she mentions earlier she absolutely can fuck him over for trying to attack a Sentinel. you might want to work in a justification why she doesn't do that as well, since it would at least remove the immediate danger from his victim.
2022-03-14 03:23:32 > I noticed Dickless punching the [Mantle] again. Be so easy to arrest him for trying to attack a Sentinel. > The middle option didn’t exist. The patriarch of the family had complete control, up to life and death, over their family. There was no calling the guard to arrest this… subhuman filth. What he was doing? I assume in the second paragraph Elaine means that she can't get him arrested for beating his wife, because as she mentions earlier she absolutely can fuck him over for trying to attack a Sentinel. you might want to work in a justification why she doesn't do that as well, since it would at least remove the immediate danger from his victim.
2022-03-14 03:23:32 > I noticed Dickless punching the [Mantle] again. Be so easy to arrest him for trying to attack a Sentinel. > The middle option didn’t exist. The patriarch of the family had complete control, up to life and death, over their family. There was no calling the guard to arrest this… subhuman filth. What he was doing? I assume in the second paragraph Elaine means that she can't get him arrested for beating his wife, because as she mentions earlier she absolutely can fuck him over for trying to attack a Sentinel. you might want to work in a justification why she doesn't do that as well, since it would at least remove the immediate danger from his victim.
2022-03-14 03:23:32 > I noticed Dickless punching the [Mantle] again. Be so easy to arrest him for trying to attack a Sentinel. > The middle option didn’t exist. The patriarch of the family had complete control, up to life and death, over their family. There was no calling the guard to arrest this… subhuman filth. What he was doing? I assume in the second paragraph Elaine means that she can't get him arrested for beating his wife, because as she mentions earlier she absolutely can fuck him over for trying to attack a Sentinel. you might want to work in a justification why she doesn't do that as well, since it would at least remove the immediate danger from his victim.
2022-03-14 03:23:32 > I noticed Dickless punching the [Mantle] again. Be so easy to arrest him for trying to attack a Sentinel. > The middle option didn’t exist. The patriarch of the family had complete control, up to life and death, over their family. There was no calling the guard to arrest this… subhuman filth. What he was doing? I assume in the second paragraph Elaine means that she can't get him arrested for beating his wife, because as she mentions earlier she absolutely can fuck him over for trying to attack a Sentinel. you might want to work in a justification why she doesn't do that as well, since it would at least remove the immediate danger from his victim.
2022-03-14 03:23:32 > I noticed Dickless punching the [Mantle] again. Be so easy to arrest him for trying to attack a Sentinel. > The middle option didn’t exist. The patriarch of the family had complete control, up to life and death, over their family. There was no calling the guard to arrest this… subhuman filth. What he was doing? I assume in the second paragraph Elaine means that she can't get him arrested for beating his wife, because as she mentions earlier she absolutely can fuck him over for trying to attack a Sentinel. you might want to work in a justification why she doesn't do that as well, since it would at least remove the immediate danger from his victim.
2022-03-14 03:23:32 > I noticed Dickless punching the [Mantle] again. Be so easy to arrest him for trying to attack a Sentinel. > The middle option didn’t exist. The patriarch of the family had complete control, up to life and death, over their family. There was no calling the guard to arrest this… subhuman filth. What he was doing? I assume in the second paragraph Elaine means that she can't get him arrested for beating his wife, because as she mentions earlier she absolutely can fuck him over for trying to attack a Sentinel. you might want to work in a justification why she doesn't do that as well, since it would at least remove the immediate danger from his victim.
2022-03-14 03:23:32 > I noticed Dickless punching the [Mantle] again. Be so easy to arrest him for trying to attack a Sentinel. > The middle option didn’t exist. The patriarch of the family had complete control, up to life and death, over their family. There was no calling the guard to arrest this… subhuman filth. What he was doing? I assume in the second paragraph Elaine means that she can't get him arrested for beating his wife, because as she mentions earlier she absolutely can fuck him over for trying to attack a Sentinel. you might want to work in a justification why she doesn't do that as well, since it would at least remove the immediate danger from his victim.
2022-03-11 15:02:49 > I noticed Dickless punching the [Mantle] again. Be so easy to arrest him for trying to attack a Sentinel. > The middle option didn’t exist. The patriarch of the family had complete control, up to life and death, over their family. There was no calling the guard to arrest this… subhuman filth. What he was doing? I assume in the second paragraph Elaine means that she can't get him arrested for beating his wife, because as she mentions earlier she absolutely can fuck him over for trying to attack a Sentinel. you might want to work in a justification why she doesn't do that as well, since it would at least remove the immediate danger from his victim.

> I noticed Dickless punching the [Mantle] again. Be so easy to arrest him for trying to attack a Sentinel. > The middle option didn’t exist. The patriarch of the family had complete control, up to life and death, over their family. There was no calling the guard to arrest this… subhuman filth. What he was doing? I assume in the second paragraph Elaine means that she can't get him arrested for beating his wife, because as she mentions earlier she absolutely can fuck him over for trying to attack a Sentinel. you might want to work in a justification why she doesn't do that as well, since it would at least remove the immediate danger from his victim.

Tiffany Miller

There is nothing positive about any patriarchal society period. Anyone who isn't against patriarchy is utterly evil

Riprexe

While I_ agree with your comment about immortal Tyrant, remember Elaine's skill don't make you immortal, it makes you young again, Then you start aging again, slowly due to your probably high Vitality, but still aging.

sqeesqad

You seem to be under the misunderstanding that discrimination needs logic

buca117

@sqeesqad There is a logic behind everything, even illogic. If someone is wrong about something, there exists a reason for their mistaken belief. Throughout history, every single example of racism or bigotry can be explained, traced back to some impetus. There is a cause and effect to everything. So yes, even sexism is logical from a certain perspective.

Cormac

True, but I was making the assumption that as he leveled up, he would gain more and more vitality, thus extending his life even further. If he was de-aged to say, 20, how long would it take for his body to return to its present state? We can't really say but it would take a lot longer than the first time around, due to all the points he has accumulated in vitality over the years.

Anna

Getting your age reversed doesn't make you immune to getting stabbed on the senate floor 23 times, much less does it let you fuck off for several years and expect to still have a throne to return to when you come back. I'd very much expect that emperors that get the longevity treatment will just end up being killed violently at some point, because the people around them are just as aware of the implication of longer life spans as the one receiving the treatment.

Tjark

Wait what? Really don't get that. The basic and fundamental argument behind my thinking is that women are the ones to bear children, being pregnant and then breastfeeding them. And that fact prevents women in this fantasy world from being as disposable as men. Because if 90% of the women die (which is bound to have happened to men at some point in their history because humans are just another race here) then humanity is fucked. And because of that it is natural that men will take more dangerous jobs. It just makes the most sense so their species can live on. The other arguments should then have been natural consequences, further solidfying the genders roles in their society. And what the heck do you mean Selkie changed the default to justify the existence of sexism?! Of course he did! That's the whole point. He wanted to write about sexism because he feels strongly about it (I think) and wants people to give it attention. 'rather than allow her world to develop naturally from its intrinsic conditions'. What. You're saying an author is forced to implement the same system that's common in litRPG because, well I don't even know why. Just doesn't make sense to me.

Cormac

@Matthias: I never mentioned going away for a few years. He could just leave for a month, maybe twice a year. Go out, kill a few high level things, then come back. You might say that anyone could do that, but he is the Emperor. He can just invoke the Shimagu threat and pass a decree forbidding anyone from leaving Remus. Say that it is on the basis of national security. And nobody would stab him on the Senate floor if he was a couple of hundred levels higher than everyone else bar Sentinels. Edit: it actually gets even worse the more I think about it. This first time it's a case of Elaine restores the Emperor's youth and in exchange he confers to women all the rights that men have. The issue is that in future he will ask her for something else with the threat that if she does not grant his wish, he will overturn the equal rights. He would hold that over her head for the rest of their lives. On the other hand should Elaine maybe go ahead with it now, but then immediately focus on trying to overthrow the Emperor and restore the Republic as soon as possible, before he builds up too much power? Hmm. That might actually be the best thing, but then again, that would go against the Sentinel policy of 'not getting involved '.

Akatosh117

ALL ways of life have their pros and cons. which you clearly know nothing about. here is one positive, even if there were succession issues and not very many rights for women, it was stable way of life for millennia.

Arlano

You don't like someone with nuanced opinion.

Gemyma

"Selkie changed the default to justify the existence of sexism, rather than allow her world to develop naturally from its intrinsic conditions." Sure, it's nice to imagine that skills and the System could create a utopia of equality, but frankly, I don't believe that would happen. Human society is kinda messed up, and if there's one thing we're good at as a species, it's discrimination over arbitrary lines in the sand. Remus is very heavily based on the Roman Empire; it's not exactly subtle, and that gives structure to Selkie's worldbuilding. The awful aspects of Remus are based on that historical context, and I definitely prefer the way Selkie acknowledges the problems that existed at that time than if he quietly swept them under the rug like nothing ever happened.

Draeysine

On one hand I see this chapter as a great reason why Elaine would take her option of dramatic systemic change to the society around, on the other hand I feel like it shouldn't have been needed. Idk. Maybe Elaine is just too afraid for the consequences of change and this chapter showed the consequences of inaction. I hope she tells the emperor that citizenship for all, and slavery being abolished are non negotiables,, as they should be. We are all of us free or none of us

SelkieMyth

Also ties into “I couldn’t bear to write more” - I considered going much deeper on this but decided this was enough

SelkieMyth

Alright lightly addressing it - childbirth and child rearing. It takes an absurd amount of time and energy, and most of it falls on the woman in the relationship

SelkieMyth

Because all the other issues come around again. Sorry I wasn’t super clear - hard chapter as I said

Cirvante

Oh, boohoo, the system is sexist. Perhaps you should consider that Selkie made it that way not to justify sexism in their fantasy society, but rather to ensure that humans are the underdogs. Rather than writing us as the almighty apex predators dominating everyone else, basically another "Humanity, Fuck Yeah!", we end up as potential dinosaur food. An idealized fantasy world where everyone is equal is both boring and unrealistic. As are litrpg systems where 10 strength = 10 strength. The world Selkie has created seems for the most part internally consistent. They went through centuries of staving off exctinction through giant murder ants, losing soldiers every day and night. It's perfectly logical that women would get pushed into housewife roles. Because if the birthrates get too low, humanity would be wiped off the map. Even the modt benevolent rulers would make some hard choices in that situation. Putting women on the frontline wouldn't work anyway, because it's been proven (by the Israeli military I believe) that mixed units perform markedly worse, since men will take more risks to protect female soldiers. Because protecting women is so ingrained in us from an early age. Nevermind that they simply can't perform at the same physical level. The only physical sports where women tend to have an advantage seems to be ultra-endurance. Something about being better able to handle that sort of pain. Anyway, you may not like the fantasy society Selkie created, but it is internally consistent and believable. Life wasn't great in ancient Rome and adding dinosaurs and killer ants doesn't exactly improve things.

Torbjørn Nilsen

I think we all can agree that equality for both sexes is the best outcome though? Right people? Just not on what equality entails, as that is a massive research endeavour.

Torbjørn Nilsen

I don't get why she doesn't ask the other sentinels to help her. This is a fight she can fight without making an imortal emperor. But Elaine is short sighted and a shitt planner as always.

Shoto

Sentinels are neutral. Involving all the sentinels would be putting them into politics. And neutrality is also what rules the Night, and consequently the vampires. Neutrality has its downsides. And even the Sentinels have their limitations, for example the Ranger commanders are their bosses, so there's the senate, and now the emperor.

Erik R

Absolutely. However not the best for the government though.. It's easier to maintain power when people hate one another instead of hating the rulers. It's not that different even today.

Cirvante

Leaving for a month every year isn't going to skyrocket his levels. Nevermind that he seems to have classes geared towards administration and commanding troops. He's not a monster slayer and likely won't level from it. And the sort of situations that make you level rapidly are best avoided if one wants to enjoy immortality. In comparison, the Sentinels get into high-stakes situations regularly and are mostly combat classers. And now they know about the deadzone and can go on training trips to reach 512. With Elaine's medical manuscripts, even a Sentinel like Hunting or Brawling can take a healer class as their 3rd and that's a shortcut to getting an immortality skill for themselves. The emperor is never going to outlevel them and if he becomes too much of a tyrant, someone will murder him. Perhaps not the senators, but maybe some assassin sniper with a poison class. Toxic killed a level 900+ sea monster before he hit 256. Punching up is definitely a thing and no one is completely safe.

Blayne Allsen

Definitely can't blame you for not wanting to do more research on this or go through the editing process for it. All-in-all though, it was still a damn strong chapter. I could almost feel what Elaine was feeling throughout the chapter

Michael McLeod

It was already mentioned in an earlier chapter I believe but the reason she did not do that earlier was because legislative equality does not necessarily lead to social equality. That is, just because the law acknowledges gender equality in some form tommorrow does not mean the people's opinions and habits will change to embracing those new laws. See the US post civil war, slavery is abolished and this is good but many people still treated african americans as second class citizens and some took that even farther. The point being Elaine realizes that looking to the political authority to enact a change of this sort in society is often ineffective or even counterproductive if the people being governed do not have a change in their personal worldviews and societal norms. It's not a nice reality and its not right but it is the way things are at this point in the story. She may be able to stimulate this change of heart in people by encouraging the women around her to be stronger and give those she can protect a leg up in the leveling scheme especially since the imperial regime appears to be stable at the moment and there are not active and highly visible threats aside from the shimagu because that stability will allow her to focus on long term goals/endeavors instead of having to put out a bunch of metaphorical brush fires.

Sean O'Connor

Im thinking that the emperors curse is going to be that he can't be part of a government

Philip Pleiss

I like that you cover the moral vs legal side of things in this story. It really adds depth to the world and makes it seem more realistic. Sometimes what is legal is not always right. It also gives light to uncomfortable societal issues that many like to pretend don't exist. I have acquaintances that are police officers that get to arrest abusers, only to have the abuser (or in many cases, their family) browbeat the victim into accepting the person back and retracting their statement. "I fell", "we were playing football", etc 2 weeks later, they are arresting the person again for the same offense or worse. Sometimes, the second arrest is a homicide charge, because the victim finally strikes back, or the abuser finally takes it too far. I grew up in a poor neighborhood where situations like that were common. I went to school with a kid where 2 generations of his family were in prison for crimes against women, and even in 7th grade the kid was already a rampant misogynist. At least she was able to get the kids out of the situation. Really crappy situation all around. Makes me feel for the number of health care professionals that get put in these situations daily.

Rui Lourenço

This is not true at all. The primary difference is not sexual dimorphism at all. That makes no sense. Just think about it. An army with men and women would still be stronger than an army of just the men, even if women were weaker. This would also, eventually, diminish all sexual dimorphism in what relates to strength through natural selection. No. The real motive for women being the non-fighters is pregnancy. That's all. And it's still valid in Remus.

Philip Pleiss

I strongly suspect that when we finally get some history reveals, it is gonna turn out that the entire human society of Remus started off as transplants from earth. The likelihood of a human society on another world/dimension evolving with that many parallels to ancient Rome has to be infinitesmal. That would explain the sexism, the slavery, the religious parallels, etc. Doesn't Elaine even have a theory that the Gods may have been just a bunch of copycats, cribbing ideas they stole from other realities? Or maybe they just straight up stole people. I seem to recall at least one Roman legion that disappeared from Britain in the 2nd century.

Eric

It might be more karmic if his curse is god level of arrogance. It might get him killed.

1536539

Nice chapter, thank you

aqa

I am very disappointed in Elaine. Not for this chapter in particular, but she’s handling the overal slavery and sexism thing in a completely backward way. She only uses her personal strength and wealth to force a better outcome for individual cases. Even though she recognizes it’s a drop in a bucket and has examples of how such things changed on earth. And considers bribing a dictator a viable option for larger societal change. If she had a “not my responsibility” attitude I would understand, but she stated multiple times she wants to change those parts of society. If she really wants to change things in a good way, she’ll have to dedicate large portions of her time to a civil rights movement. Which Ellaine should know with her knowledge from previous life, and memory skills. That is not to say I am disappointed in this part of the story, so far. Humans do things in a backward way very often. But the last few chapters do lead up to a narrative where bribing a militaristic dictator is a good way to fix societal issues. If the story really goes that route it would be disappointing.

George

thank you for the warning I'll skip this one ^_^

Flying Goat

Wonder if the deal she offers will include the formation of the Valkyries as part of enforcement of however she intends to fix the gender power dynamic.

Draeysine

The U.S post civil war had issues because the laws and rights came out piece meal instead of instantly, while not actually punishing slave owners beyond removal of their slaves and alloying them to still have politcal power in their regions, and while installing institutions, Laws and allowing policies that continued they're ideology. The union did not stop racism only pushed it into hiding. The actual lesson is to rip the inequallity out root and stem. And then give back to those who suffered injustice. That's balancing scales. Remus is of course different, not only because they don't have chattel slavery (at least not that I've seen) but because slavery is temporar... usually. There's not a racist ideology behind it. Anybody can get shackled. It would be way easier to end. I also agree with Buca117 on the sexism, and honestly despite Selkies take, (it's not hard to imagine a society where men are the child rearers, that's honestly a weak excuse) I also find it incredibly weird to have a litrpg mechanics but still the stupid same sexist ideology.

The 49th Khan

What chapter was Injustice 1?

Fingin

Patriarcal society have a reason to exist (not in modern society but in ancient time) if you have 10 young women and 10 young men if you lose 30% of them equally you have 7 women and 7 men so to maintain your population you need each women to have 3 childrens, now if only man die you have 10 women and 4 men you need each women to have 2 childrens and if they have 3 you grow your population by 50%. Now you need a good reason for men to die and "protect what is yours" is a good reason.

Keith Rice

Really people. If being physically and mentally equal caused prejudice to vanish then racism would never exist in the first place. I really don't know why people continue to insist that prejudices like sexism must be rational. Like... really now, what about human society makes you suspect a fantasy society organizes itself along perfectly rational lines? Any such society would be populated by beings far more alien than the most fantastic of fantasy species.

Ryan

Pathetic, not sure i can continue this story when the MC keeps compromising her morals and values like loose change to be chopped and changed as she wishes. Kill him and do the world some good. She knows how to achieve a result that will benefit all humanity but chooses to sacrifice so many for an individual who will go on to ruin countless other lives. Pathetic AND cowardly

Ryan

Thought we had seen some growth after the shimagu arc, apparently not

Keith Rice

And as for the idea that people wouldn't continue to insist on these irrational prejduces in the face of overwhelming force an American General once insisted that his force while outnumbered 4:1 in unfamiliar terrain facing equally armed and well prepared opposition that his force "could not lose to a bunch of native savages" and that they were incapable of harming him. His name was Custer and he was really, really, really incredibly wrong about this. But blind, irrational prejudice completely overwhelmed basic military doctrine that even a small child could work out - attacking into an unknown force without scouting while knowing you are vastly outnumbered and that they are prepared, know you are coming, and have been scouting you the entire way is completely insane. Prejudice does strange things to the mind. According to survivor accounts Custer took the estimate of 1500-2500 enemies, and his primary concern was how his forces would prevent the native americans from scattering after they were defeated so he wouldn't have to engage in a lengthy cleanup operation. He was so certain of his victory and innate superiority his entire attack pattern was based around minimizing the number of people who could flee. Thus he ordered his men to split into six groups, completely surround the enemy and attack from all sides (when attacking with a smaller force, about the worst thing you could possibly do is spread it as thin as possible and maximize the area the larger force has to engage you. The only thing you could do that is worse is give them no path to rout through, guaranteeing that their only option is to stand and fight thus literally forcing their numerical superiority to win out the day. And the only thing you could do worse than that is decline the offer of two gatling guns which might provide the only force multiplier that could overcome superior numbers. Because they were heavy and they'd slow down his progress and make the natives harder to round up once his racially superior force inevitably won, of course)

Anna

yeah, no worries, I can't imagine it could've been fun to write, especially since any attempt to help out here runs into the larger systemic problems that cement the patriarchal status quo

Matthias Schauer (edited)

Comment edits

2022-03-14 03:23:31 Chapter 22
2022-03-14 03:23:31 Chapter 22
2022-03-14 03:23:31 Chapter 22
2022-03-14 03:23:31 Chapter 22
2022-03-14 03:23:31 Chapter 22
2022-03-14 03:23:31 Chapter 22
2022-03-14 03:23:31 Chapter 22
2022-03-14 03:23:31 Chapter 22
2022-03-14 03:23:31 Chapter 22
2022-03-14 03:23:31 Chapter 22
2022-03-11 19:39:14 Chapter 22

Chapter 22

zadcap

Don't forget that she is still young, barely an adult, and has since the very beginning had extreme trouble with politics and managing people. Until pretty recently her social position, while still amazing for being a Sentinel, has been as the newest, weakest, the token healer in a group designed around combat ability, founded by their strongest member who has dedicated the entire organization to neutrality in politics.

fbt

good bit, ty! and it wasn't gratuitous trauma, it was the seed to her resolution, so that equates to at least a bit more latitude in that case.

aqa

While that does mitigate it a bit. She also had the 17 or so years from her previous life to fall back on, on top of her currently... 24? I think recently she's been making to little use of her previous life knowledge in general. Another example of that was the senator a chapter or two ago, who was punished for not believing her. One of the big pillars of modern civilization, and the biggest requirement for change, is free speech. And even with all the "ifs and buts" of free speech (like racism, hatespeech, etc), just saying what that senator did should never be cause for punishment. But it seems Ellaine is ignoring her cheat-knowledge and is getting corrupted by power a bit.

Torbjørn Nilsen

Yeah, the lack of growth on elaines part is the boring part of this story. This is charging into the forest after Artemis all over again. Emotionaly charged decisionmaking, always the way to go. Gather your friends and sit the fuck down, explain your goals. THEN you go and do things.

aqa

I hope you are aware horrible domestic abuse is actually a thing in real life. And people in real life can also “fix it” by killing the perpetrator. And still that rarely happens, for good reason. Domestic abuse is only one example of the horrible situations vulnerable people can get in to. All of which are expertly ignored be most people. And even when not ignored there usually isn’t a good way to fix it. It’s a bit of a stretch to condemn a fictional character so harshly for something real humans ignore do easily. Or complaining about morals when your own response is murder.

Philip Pleiss

I can see her using the rejuvenation skill on the emperor, only for the Emperor's curse to be something really nasty and the emperor blaming her for it. With the Gnoll she used it on, White Dove essentially ruined his business career by intentionally making it hard for him to "sniff out deals". Maybe with the imperator, he'll get cursed with the hatred of the people, or fatal hubris.

Bbyh

@agua I'm not sure what approaches you want her to take? As far as I'm aware most approaches on earth relied on public opinion and while Elaine has levers on that front she's also one person and damn near the entirety of affluent society probably represents an entrenched interest. Not to mention she is likely to be bad at it and, since I believe writing is primarily a bureaucractic endeavor in world, information flow is likely to be kind of bad with distorted meanings common.

aqa

@Bbyh Of the top of my head. Considering Artemis is her friend and is in some rebellious group(?) that kills people that go to far with their abuse, Ellaine could start by talking to her about her ideas about equal rights. Maybe Artemis knows people that want the same thing, but have less violent methods than Artemis. Or alternatively, Night doesn't seem overly misogynistic, so she could talk to him. She doesn't have to fix it all at once. Fixing it all at once would be very unrealistic and bad storytelling. But she could have made a start ever since she became a sentinel.

Bbyh

Why are people so focused on combat? Combat isn't life. Guns being a thing did little to change women's role in society.

Robert

Practically every successful society pre-industrial revolution was Patriarchal. These same societies were the ones that were able to grow, expand, and create the needed wealth and stability for the societies we enjoy today to even exist. The modern justice system that presumes innocence over guilty was a product of a Patriarchal society. The industrial revolution and resulting mechanization that allowed for machines to remove most of the time/labor of home making was a product of Patriarchal societies. Safe effective birth control that allowed for women's sexual emancipation was a product of a Patriarchal society. Saying there is nothing good about any Patriarchal society is like saying that EVERY society pre-1980s had nothing good about it which is so remotely unlikely based solely on statistics as to be comical.

Addicted_Reader

"Let's just murder him!" is way more emotionally charged that what you complain about.

AKi1red

you bring up a good point sexism would never really exist in litrpg world's where gender isn't a factor on strength and capability to provide... thinking about it men wouldn't have the protective instinct and women would probably loose the tendency to be nurturing... unless you felt protective of anyone without a combat class regardless of gender and height and stuff

Robert

Ima let everyone else go on about realism or what makes sexism exist. I'd say my problem with chapters like this one or the modern sex talk chapters is that they feel so wildly out of tone from the rest of the story that it pulls me out of them. The overwhelming majority of the time Beneath the Dragoneye Moons is a light hearted adventure story, so when very serious topics about domestic abuse or modern consent talks come up suddenly it makes me feel like I'm listening to the Author speaking instead of Elaine speaking. It doesn't quite feel right with the rest of the story. Not sure what the solution is since Selkie obviously wants to discuss these topics. It's also possible other people disagree and find it perfectly in line with the story's tone.

Joshua Little

Thanks for the chapter.

Robert

Without questioning how the sexism in the story came to be and just taking it as face value I have a couple of observations. Given the importance of house wives in Remus there is presumably a [Housewife] (might have been mentioned, my memory is crap) class. Presumably this [Housewife] would have skills that benefit a housewife, but we also know that skills are at least somewhat customized based on that person's situation. Which we've seen with Elaine where the system almost trolls her with specific skills. So if a housewife was having to deal with domestic abuse consistently in a world where this system exists, it seems to follow that the system would provide a skill for dealing with domestic abuse. Something like : Soothing Touch : Your husband has a problem with controlling his anger. Your touch and words have a calming effect. 5% bonus chance per level to defuse a situation where your husband's anger has gotten away from him. And given the skill's limited scope it's probably more powerful that a broad one. Also if housewives who have the [Housewife] class are constantly having to deal with this sort of thing presumably is would be treated as using their class and they would be receiving EXP for being abused? Scary thought.. Also if the [Housewife] class exists it presumably revolves around skills that make doing domestic work easier, so would a high level [Housewife] be able to whip through cooking, cleaning, laundry, childcare, etc. with a flick of her wrist and have most of her day to do whatever she wants? Presumably there is a large amount of high level [Housewife]'s since almost every women is a housewife and spends almost their entire life doing [Housewife]y stuff. Women of our own past lacked actionable power but were very good at applying power-by-proxy. Such as the idea of a knight doing a feat of a lady's choosing for her favor. I.E. getting the dude to do something dangerous for her instead of her doing it. Presumably a world with skills and a system like this would would have skills/classes devoted to abusing power-by-proxy as much as possible. It might even be assumed that the average [Housewife] might have such skills to make it easier to get what she wants from her husband. Are the women of Remus getting their husbands to do all the dangerous/dirty stuff on purpose while they stay home in relative safety? Especially since what would normally be time consuming back breaking domestic labor is being heavily mitigated by their class skills? Probably not, but it's an interesting thought. I presume at the very least the [Noblewomen] definitely have these power-by-proxy based skills. The existence of the system brings in a huge amount of interesting questions and implications.

Melting Sky

Sexism in our society has more to do with brain chemistry and hormones than it does physical differences in strength. Men took a dominant role historically not because they are a bit physically stronger but rather because they are naturally much more aggressive and pre-wired for more dominant behavior as a general rule. Seriously, pump a load of little girls full of testosterone every day of their lives until they become adults and you will see just how big a difference even just that one hormone being elevated will cause. They will be a lot physically stronger and considerably more aggressive and dominant people on average as a result of the treatment. There is a reason roid rage is a thing and the most dangerous and aggressive animals tend to have crazy high testosterone levels. It's why bull sharks which aren't particularly large or powerful account for the vast majority of shark attacks. It's why the vast majority of elephant-related attacks occur from male elephants during musk. They are testosterone-driven and that's just one of many differences between male and female biology that pre-wires males for being the more aggressive sex. On top of all this, there is the simple fact that system stats serve as multipliers to the underlying natural body. A big 7ft tall 280lb ogre of a man with 5 strength will be MUCH stronger than a 100lb woman with 5 strength. Most people in Remus are physical laborers so the system serves to multiple the underlying physical advantage males have, rather than equalize them. The only part of this world that could be considered as a bit of equalizer is magic. Magic does not favor males in any way. A male and female mage of the same level and skill should be roughly equal in power, but that is hardly the sort of thing you would need to overthrow human nature and result in Remus having radically different social values from the real world society it was based on.

Cardean Nasdre

Really liked your points, I for one do enjoy this story quite a lot but I would really like to know why woman have no rights in Remus? The system should basically be such an equalizer that society develops totally different than ours back in the middle ages. Is there a reason for this or was it just a decision made by the author to implement injustice? Cheers

11037

Equalizer? The system restricts your abilities based on a class chosen as a child. And girls are deliberately trained to get poor classes. It locks them into their place in society worse than anything we've got on Earth.

Ryan

@jachinNelson Re read the chapter, literally explains how she could remove this parasite.

Primex

The setting of Remus is based on Ancient Rome, that's why there's so much inequality in this story showcased by slaves and women having basically no rights.

Ryan

@Addicted_Reader We are a warring race. Don't you agree our world too would be a better place if people knew being an asshole could get them killed? Instead is the good citizens who are scared of the assholes. And every generation is more emotionally desensitised, learning the Dao of getting ahead rather than wanting to be a decent human as there is no profit or perceived benefits

Robert

@Primex Well yes, but that's not my point. Remus specifically DOES want women to be housewives and mothers. I was pointing out that based on how we have seen the system works it would follow that there would be a good amount of high level housewives and their skills would make it exceedingly easy to accomplish their societal expectations. It would also follow that since housewives in Remus are expected to deal with domestic abuse, they would have skills that help with that. Since that's how the system has been shown to work. Just saying that the setting is based on Ancient Rome doesn't mean anything if the way the world's system functions would mitigate a lot of the problems. A new housewife would have to be able to meet the societal expectations just the same as an experienced housewife, but the experienced housewife would have constantly been getting skill/class levels by constantly doing housewifey stuff and thus would be getting better and better at accomplishing those societal expectations over time until they were basically the earth equivalent of domestic work superman.

Addicted_Reader

I believe that system skills can't do any sort of mind-control, so the kinds of things you talk about are nonstarters

Robert

I imagine the power-by-proxy skills would be more like advanced social skills framed around manipulation than actual mind control. Think like politician's social skills. This would be especially necessary for [Noblewomen] since they are an extension of their husbands political power, and often have a huge hand in handling things in the background.

Melting Sky

If anything the system would make the imbalance of power worse rather than better. Remember, stats have a multiplicative rather than additive effect. In other words, they serve as a multiplier to what's already there. I'm just making these numbers up as an example since we don't know the exact scale of the system multipliers, but let's say that every 10 points of strength equates to a 1% increase in strength. We have two people. One is a beefy 6ft tall 200lb guy who can naturally bench 200lbs, the other is a 5ft tall 100lb girl who can bench 100lbs naturally. If you give them both 1000 points of strength it equates to each of them gaining a 100% bonus to their natural strength. This means the guy can bench 400lbs now and the girl can lift 200lbs. The woman would be pretty seriously strong at this point but the guy would be a superhuman beast that could snap your bones with his bare hands even though both have the same strength score. Since the stats are multiplicative in nature it means all they do is multiple the natural physical advantages males would have over women. The one place the system could serve as an equalizer is with magic since neither sex has a natural advantage there, but since the vast majority of Remus's citizens are physical laborers the system only serves to multiply the disparity in power between the sexes in most instances. There will always be exceptions like Artemis and Elaine who use the system to seize power and buck the roles society tried to dictate for them, but they are the exception rather than the rule at least in this era.

Robert

@Melting Sky I would tend to agree especially since I'm taking Selkies world as it's presented instead of questioning it which is why I focused my argument on women's roles and what the system would provide to women in those roles rather than focusing on stats. Presumably the system would provide Labors with Labory skills and labory skills wouldn't help them against manipulation at all. Women are already exceptionally good at manipulating men in real life which I presume evolved because they needed to be able to influence men since they couldn't physically overpower men. In a world where the deferential between men and women might be even higher as you pointed out it would be even more important for women to be able to manipulate men using their intellect instead of their strength. It seems pretty reasonable to think it might be one of those skills a mother tells her daughter about that we "just don't tell daddy about."

bob barker

so, basically all of society, ever, is evil. alrighty then.

bob barker

chromosomes, neurological structures, and hormones would still be different. Men and women would tend to continue to choose different lifestyles and goals.

Stuart Thwaites

You want to know why Remus is so sexist. It's the same reason the real world is (to varied degrees) sexist. When we were just starting civilization our brains allowed us to notice that by delegating rolls we get things done faster and better and what is the 1 VITAL roll that males CANNOT perform? GETTING PREGNANT! Even today, pregnancy is a delicate time for mother and babe. That is the origin of gender rolls across every civilization.

Nathan Parker

The domestic abuse issue has been raised enough times that it seems natural to be an ongoing issue in this world, and it seems to lead into her bargaining with the emperor on an issue she's been concerned about for a while here enough to be a story plot. I'm not going to say this is an extremely exciting chapter or anything, and some things like rehashing vitality/"urchin attempts to rob Elaine again" are pretty plot-thin, but it does seem like the chapter advances the story somewhat. The modern sex talk on the other hand dragging on for several chapters absolutely felt like the author speaking to make a point, and did detract from the story for me (not to say the point was incorrect, just that taking several consecutive chapters to make a point as an author detracts from a story naturally).

Nathan Parker

Bribing a dictator for societal change seems like a pretty legit option to me in the context of the society in the story TBH. It doesn't seem like walkouts and sitins are going to get it done in Remus.

Shoto

Pregnancy must play a role in this very sex. Humanity has always lived with hardship, Night said it was always a fight for survival, having women on the front lines wouldn't be a problem, but those who fight tend to die, and that would cause the human population to decline over time. generations. This proves very well against the Formarians. And even without that, imagine a woman who struggled in the same way as men, but she becomes pregnant, for about 1 year she is essential for pregnancy and basic care for the baby and she will be protected during this period. Even if she fights again, she went 1 year without leveling, while her husband leveled up naturally. And a woman can have many children, my grandmother had 10 children and the oldest was only 14 years old. It was 15 years of her taking care of children practically. Not to mention caring for a child should be safer than fighting on the front lines. Nobody wants to die, many women could choose to take care of children and do essential things other than fighting. But over the years, men tend to spend more time fighting than women, which creates a level difference. The problem is that there must have been idiot men who thought they should command and fight and consequently level up faster, and women should focus on other things. And over time that thinking must have gone down a bad path, creating this whole sexist problem.

AKi1red

Idk if anything during the early stages I can see it being more common for women using projectile weapons during pregnancy but considering stats they wouldn't be bedridden I've seen pregnant mail carriers I'm sure a super human version can throw a rock ancient spear or bow/ arrow fine also someone with power having a kid would go back to hunting they did community raising lowest level or non combatants would most likely watch the kids so sexism wouldn't have come from women give birth aspect

Shoto

Bribing the dictator seems much easier and more productive here. Elaine can't change everything on her own, she's not a person who knows how to get into politics and change things, she can't even do that. Sentinels are neutral, Night is neutral, she can't use the Sentinel title for that. And if she starts a rebellion, the first thing that will happen is the Emperor sends the Sentinels after her. Don't think social change is easy when you don't have the support of those who lead.

Shoto

@Ryan ,So the answer would be to just kill the guy?? And go where?? kill everyone who commits this crime?? What will happen?? "Sentinel goes mad and kills innocent citizens." do you want her to start a riot?? The Sentinels are sent to kill leaders of violent rebellions which is exactly what Elaine would be doing. And not to mention, what would Elaine's head look like?? she feels bad about killing criminals, how would she be killing thousands of men?? Do you want Elaine to abandon her beliefs and become an assassin who doesn't care about life?? that the answer to everything is to kill?? So Elaine would slaughter half of Remus' population?? Are you seriously saying that??

Shoto

Dameon Cornish , And what would it be like to "pluck evil in the bud" by what you're saying?? Kill the guy who wanted to beat up his wife and kids? and then kill all the men in Remus?? what would that be? 50% of men in a country?? Would Elaine shed so much blood and that would be "evening things out"?? Create a rebellion?? Sentinels are sent to kill leaders of aggressive rebellions.

Cirvante

Hmm, good point about housewifes and skills. While literal mind-control might not exist on Pallos, there's enough social skills that give you intuitive knowledge on how to handle social situations. Something like Charming, Persuasive or Charismatic. Pretty much any housewife in Remus should have at least one or two social skills, considering they don't need combat or survival skills. With that being said, this specific family might just have been a poor example. Maybe the woman (like Elaine) never got any social skills and couldn't manipulate her husband. Still, considering what's possible with social skills (Kallisto is a good example), skills getting absorbed into classes, getting upgraded or merging into new skills, women should be in a much better position in general. There was mention of one senator's wife pulling his strings in the beginning, but with system skills that should be the norm rather than some rare case. It feels like a bit of a blind spot in the story. I would love to hear Selkie's thoughts on that.

Torbjørn Nilsen

I mean, women perform better in the school system than men, and it seems that caster is the stongest classes as always. So women should rule the world if we go by the "stats are multiplicative of whats already there". Pregnancy, there is a spell for that. Raising children, men can do that aswell, or get a specialized tutor for it that raises multiple children better than you ever could. The world is sexist because Selkie wanted this world to be so she/he could write about a something he/she felt deeply about. (What it seems like to me).

Robert

@Torbjørn Nilsen Women's higher performance in the modern school system isn't necessarily indicative of women being better at learning or more intelligent. It could simply be that the women perform better in institutionalized environments than men do, maybe indicating that women are more agreeable and thus clash less when forced to conform. Or that men are naturally more energetic/rowdy while women are naturally more reserved so being cooped up in a quiet room being talked at for 8 hours a day works better for women. If Artemis' school is more hands on and less booky getting talked at then it's possible that men would outstrip women in performance at learning magic. The actual intelligence bell curves for men and women mostly overlap with men's having slightly more variance than women's does (i.e. greater portion of women are near 100IQ).

Cirvante

That argument doesn't even make sense, since there are no mental stats, only magical ones. And not everyone can just casually pick up a mage class and do well with it. Nevermind that like Artemis said, mage classes are combat classes and require fighting to level past a certain point. And while some young girl in Aquilea could hunt wind weasels until maybe level 50-60, what comes next? Slimes? Going through the sewers? And then? Going outside the city hunting dinosaurs? Very low survival rate. Learning from a high-level mage who has the teaching skill is your best bet. And they don't normally take female apprentices. So while magic may be the great equalizer, it's not nearly as accessible as you might think and most girls would balk at the leveling requirements. It takes someone a bit crazy like Artemis to excel as a mage.

Keith Rice

Uh, some people should probably do some study of history. "Every society was patriarchal..." no. Just flat no. There were no matriarchal societies, because for a society to have dominance of one gender over the other requires a gender to be repressed, and repression is based on violence - which men have a greater physical capacity for. But not every pre-modern society organized itself socially around who had the greatest capacity for violence. Many, many societies did not value violence highly, and did not see violence as an ideal behavior. Unfortunately what tends to happen is that societies that highly value violence, like European societies, tended to become better at committing violence (because societies that value something become better at it than societies that don't) and then murdered non-violent societies. If you think that having a violent society is desireable, I'd look at the outcomes of violence versus nonviolence. Because we very much need to shift to having a non-violent society, or someone is going to think nuclear weapon use is a good idea. Because the Great Filter hypothesis is a pretty convincing one, and we might run smack into it.

Anonymous

Now that the never-ending meat grinder that was the Formarian conflict is done, hopefully Remus will be more open to this and done trying to justify the bullshit with 'we need as many babies as possible so that we can send them to die'. But humans gonna human.