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Re: Zero 2x20 Reaction Extended (YT link below) (Patreon)

Published:
2025-02-22 02:00:04
Imported:
2025-02
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Content

In Re: Zero 2x20, The Beginning of the Sanctuary and the Beginning of the End, Roswaal has a lot to be melancholy about.

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YouTube Link:

https://youtu.be/a2x7OBYdgRs

Comments

Snor

Peak zero day!! Great reaction The Echidna that Subaru saw in the tea party dream world is actually not the same Echidna from the backstory we got here. She is like a clone of Echidna, in fact if i remember correctly i believe the creator said that had Roswaal met or found the Echidna that Subaru saw he wouldnt be satisfied. The dream world Echidna is more so of a clone that leans towards her meaner side if i remember correctly. I also really like Garfiel's new change in tone. Having him as an ally is so relieving. Also his reasoning for sticking with Subau is so awesome. Great reaction, cant wait for episode 21 and 22 next week.

Reuben Filimaua

I was about to write a comment but I think you pretty much touched everything that was needed to be said. You're right essentially. Roswaal believes that humanity is fundamentally weak and cannot achieve anything unless they adopt the "ends justifies the means" mentality and sacrifices everything for ONE goal and desire. To him, anything else is just unrealistic and foolish. Basically saying to cut off everything - connections to other people, the value of your own life etc. Everything must be a tool in service to your one desire. That's why he rebuked Subaru for throwing away the one power he has (Return by Death) that gives him any chance at achieving anything.. hence why he then made a big fuss of calling Subaru ORDINARY. "What can an ordinary person like you do?" And as you said, I think Roswaal's belief system is all cope and defense mechanisms that he has held on for too long, thus becoming toxic and unhealthy.

Aukar frank

Peak zero day!!! The echidna agenda is getting harder to defend but i'm just as commited to her as Rooswall

Vali Sippola

Let’s go. Memories, Roswaal’s love, and lots and lots of Melancholy. We start to get a slight picture of the Sanctuaries purpose. Obviously we only get the perspective that Ryuzu had all those years ago, so not the whole thing, Echidna almost certainly has other uses for it. While it’s used to shelter the down and outs of the world, it also seems like this barrier may have also been to keep something out, as we see. Mentioning the possible Roswaal-Melancholy connection, that’s actually one of my current favorite theories. That there was either some fusion or pact (possibly facilitated by echidna, just guessing) that has caused some aspect of melancholy to be embedded into Roswaal. It’s interesting to think about, and would absolutely line up with Roswaal’s current mindset. (Also you’ll probably recognize Hectors VA as Sukuna from JJK) I love all the wholesome stuff we get to see from the past, it’s really heartwarming, yet carries a sense of foreboding. I absolutely love the Subaru V Roswaal dynamic. You pretty much hit the nail on the head on how each of them come from similar places, yet still have completely different perspectives. Roswaals belief in the immutable nature of one’s self, one’s feelings, is so fascinating to me, there is validity and truth in his perspective, but I don’t think it’s a complete one. I prefer Subarus much more. We actually saw a mana release period in the Memory Snow OVA (which has a ton of foreshadowing and hints at future events) it was Pucks that was causing the snowfall and the freezing temperatures. So Roswaal was going about his life with this horrendously painful and probably isolating condition, and was “saved” by Echidna. Can’t even blame him for falling head over heels. I’d probably be the same. Hell, even knowing all I know about Echidna now I can’t say I’d be immune lmao. As a final thing, I love that Subaru basically has the beginnings of a crew now. It’s starting to feel like a proper squad, we usually get those in the first 5 episodes of a show, but here we are at episode 45 haha. Leave it to Re: Zero. Great thoughts as always, super excited for the next ones,

Ryan

Yes, absolutely I think we're supposed to draw a parallel between Hector's lilt and Roswaal's, especially because young Roswaal doooooeeesn't have the uneeeeeeexpected lengthening in it. 2) As for "devil," that was maybe an odd translation, but no more odd than "witch" is. The show uses 魔女 (ma-jo) "magic + woman" for Echidna / Stella, and 魔人 (ma-jin) "magic + person" for Hector of Melancholy. The implications of devil or witch come from outside the show.

Ryan
>>165534435

Quick addition: translating "ma" 魔 as "magic" maybe gives too positive an image. It's the same as the ma-zoku ("demons" or "magic-tribe") in Frieren, and there's definitely an occult / evil tinge to it.

Hailan

The Subaru/Roswaal parallels in this episodes sheds new light on the “Subawaal” snow sculpture that Rem & Ram made together in the Memory Snow OVA, doesn’t it? That OVA really was a cluster of spoilers/hints at future events in the most intentional way possible LOL. The original Ryuzu’s backstory with Beatrice is sweet, but I also like how we got to see the darker side of the Sanctuary and why it was created. Echidna clearly intended for Ryuzu to serve as the core in the first place, and who knows if she saw the encounter with Hector coming in the Tome of Wisdom? Beatrice even tried to reveal this harsh truth to Ryuzu in an attempt to get her to give up on merging with the crystal, when she mentioned how “the Sanctuary wasn’t created with demihumans like Ryuzu in mind” and how it was more of a side effect that came to be. Alas, Ryuzu is too nice for someone that was shunned for the majority of her life for being of the same “half elf” situation that Emilia is. Or perhaps it was precisely that loneliness that made her extra attached to the goodwill that Beatrice and Roswaal showed her? Either way, she makes her decision, and we’re shown with what might be the first experience that started Beatrice’s desensitization and closing down of her own heart from others. Finally, I really appreciated your connection of the Subaru vs Roswaal dynamic to the core conflict of the final stretch of Attack on Titan. I think that was much of the same lesson I took away from shows like this, like AoT, like Vinland, too. There’s this idea that “idealism”, when combined with an actual pragmatic acknowledgment of the harsh truths of the world — can actually be the most “high reaching” way of living. The people that automatically waves it off as “naive” don’t realize that this IS the narrow, higher seeking, and more difficult path to tread. Because it encompasses the strong, hopeful will to aim high and not be locked into nihilism — even after coming to terms with the darknesses in the world and the collective human experience. It’s not that you’re idealistic because you’re naive, but that you manage to remain hopeful even in the face of cruelty — which is infinitely harder than cynicism disguised as pragmatism. In this way, it’s way more difficult and commendable to live in a way that is pragmatically idealistic, than just doing whatever Zeke, Floch, or Roswaal was doing. In which they did basically what you said: create their own shackles and served as the wardens to their own cells. I think having an idealistic nature, as long as it’s not blind, also prevents us from acting upon our own darknesses — like how Eren succumbed to his urge to march the hate displayed to him by the world, back onto the world, and in return ended up becoming the same evil to others. Not to mention the coolest part about proper idealism is that it’s ever seeking, and always diligent. Because it encourages you to not settle for half-assed or convenient answers, even if it meant you’ll be without a full answer for a while. I think this was what Hange from AoT displayed, where instead of settling for the low hanging fruit of “eye for an eye” that Floch chose out of his haste and trauma from oppression — she was willing reject that and to keep “scouting” for a better answer, even if it meant she will have to struggle with uncertainty and be labeled as “unknowing” at times. A lot of the AoT fandom couldn’t see that value back then, and mocked Hange for not living up to Erwin’s standards. But what they’re not realizing is that in choosing to always reach for higher hanging solutions, even if it meant you’ll be without a solution for a longer period of time than those that went for the low hanging fruits, Hange actually encompassed the “ever seeking” aspect of the Survey Corps in ways that Floch can’t even hope to accomplish in his path of living. Put it this way, for all the people that sneer at idealism. How is the way that Thorfinn from Vinland chooses to live not ten times more admirable and MANLY than the fake pragmatism shown by people that want to remain in the “dog eat dog” reality that Vinland painted about the real world? But idealism ramblings aside, I think it’s especially encouraging to see Subaru, out of all people, to make his stand and that definitive statement against Roswaal’s self-destructive ideology. It’s fitting because Subaru really is so much like Roswaal in that he also created his own chains and lived in a prison of his own making for much of the show so far, and the roots go way back into his life before he was summoned here, too. What we’re seeing here is the accumulation of what Subaru has gone through and have learned during the second half of Season 1 and the first half of Season 2, in which now his own philosophy is developed enough to finally challenge the flames of Roswaal’s misguided yearnings. Excited for the final stretch of this incredible season!!

baseballlover723
>>165534435

Yeah Crunchyroll used an inconsistent translation for "devil" (out of context it's a reasonable translation, but in the context of Re:Zero specifically, it's inadequate). It's the same thing as what they translated as "witch", but of the opposite / neutral gender. Similarly, the "ordeal" that Petelgeuse talked about in Season 1, and the "trials" that Subaru, Emlia and Garf have gone through are also the same word. Both use 試錬 (shiren). Crunchyroll has quite a few translation mistakes (all throughout the show). Ranging from getting the subject of a line wrong to more minor one's like this, where some relevant nuance is lost.

Starky

you actually had such a good read on what echidnas plan was im incredibly impressed. a lot of people struggle to follow a lot of the plot at this point in the season lmao

Hailan
>>165534435

魔人 usually gets translated as “Warlock”, it’s pretty much used in this context as the male counterpart to Witch. At least the ReZero universe seems to use the term as such in multiple scenarios. Roswaal succeeding Hector in a sense is also really fitting considering his magical capabilities. The anime basically cut out every showcase of his abilities and just reduce him to a fireball spamming onetrick, but Roswaal was stated in the novels to be perhaps the greatest magic user the world has ever seen — one that can use all elements of magic to a stunningly coherent degree.

Starky

some awesome speculation from the novel readers is that potentially hector and roswaal were somehow merged together, most likely by echidna putting his soul inside roswaal somehow. The most obvious indicators of something like this being done are roswaals signature speech dialect that he seemed to only have after the hector incident, and hector also seemed to talk similarly. Roswaals eyes originally were both blue, but present day we can see one of them is more yellow, which was hectors eye color. We dont really know for sure what happened, since according to what is known in the light novel, hector after the attack was basically wiped from existence (not from memory obv). nobody really knows what happened to him, but he seems to just be straight up gone.

PKKite

"I've done more for less" that line alone tells us why Echidna's charms have worked on the reactor.

agoodwintv
>>165533632

It's pretty easy to defend her still. All you have to do is ignore all the evidence

agoodwintv
>>165534006

Oh I can hear the Sakuna now lol There IS something very melancholy about Roswaal, in contrast to his flashback self (post Echidna rescue). And then there's the fact that Melancholy does the trademark Roswaal sing in one of his lines, which Roswaal doesn't do in the flashback, and also Roswaal's weird, changeable physical characteristics, and his whole sad clown thing... None of it is super compelling evidence by itself but all together it's suspicious. Also about the crew forming, one of my favorite things about this episode is just the shots of the three of them looking at each other with admiration

baseballlover723

This is a bit pedantic, but there wasn't an opening this episode. The only (OG) episodes of Re:Zero thus far that have both an OP and ED (not counting when they're used as insert songs) were episodes 2, 10, and 20. Perhaps your ears / memory deceived you? On a related note, I love this visuals of this ED. Imo it's the best of the OPs and EDs up to this point. It looks like very cinematic and it's theming is just so on point for this cour. IIRC it was done by a different animator or something, but I do agree that the art style doesn't quite match the actual anime (and I don't think it's a bad thing either).

agoodwintv
>>165535900

Really nicely said! I think this theme comes up because of its importance. Just last night I watched Conclave, in which the main character makes a speech about how he fears the sin of certainty above all else. Reading the bit about Hange brought that to mind haha

agoodwintv
>>165542423

Wow that's crazy, I completely invented it lol. It's probably because I watched 19 + 20 back to back and got confused. There was an opening and ending in my viewing experience lol

finomenal
>>165535900

I love how these discussions bring together different meta concepts. We are like Hange in this channel's journey putting together pieces, reaffirming them each time they come up in a different context/show and constantly experimenting to apply them in practice. I'm more of a visual thinker, a trait drawn from my constant state of under stimulation, so hope someone goes ahead and creates a Manim like library that provides raw inputs and tools to visualize these lines of thought, like Manim does for explanations on 3Blue1Brown or BBG. Would be really cool to more intuitively put together these ideas, storylines and philosophical systems

Kieran

On the point of weakness, we see Subaru as being a direct refutation of Roswaal's idea that people will always be weak (as he's carried the feeling of weakness of being defeated by Hector and presumably endangering Echidna in the process). Through RBD, Subaru is forced to face how weak he is constantly. He isn't strong, he's emotionally unstable, he acts before he thinks, and he can be reckless. As a result of that, he has to see the bodies of the people he loves constantly piling up, before starting over just to face his own failures again (this is obviously an overly negative view of his situation, since the deaths of other people isn't his fault. But it is the view that he has held for a very long time.) But through constantly acknowledging his own weaknesses and working on his own chaeacter flaws, he becomes strong and gets closer to his ideal future where he doesn't have to sacrifice anything. This is clearest in Arc 3, where he learns to drop the idea that he's the main character and rely on others (without doing so selfishly). Which works pretty well, until Rem is eaten by Gluttony, and then Subaru develops a coping mechanism where he doesn't view himself as the main character, but rather a pariah who has to accumulate the world's suffering unto himself so that no one else needs to risk getting hurt. This results in the same fundamental weakness as Arc 3 though, that he's alone and dealing with issues far beyond his calibre. And so he has to learn that just because he's failed once, that doesn't mean he has to give up on relying on the people around him, that he can fall back into self hatred (which is clearly an issue that Roswaal has). This comment became much longer than I anticipated it being, but there's a lot of layers to Arc 4, especially in the novels. Great reaction, can't wait for the next one

Adel
>>165533632

Don't worry she is just a tiny bit evil as she recognises herself but she also occasionally does good things, also none of the evidence is really that conclusive