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Invincible 3x2 Reaction Extended (YT link below) (Patreon)

Published:
2025-02-23 02:08:24
Edited:
2025-03-01 02:44:35
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Content

In Invincible season 3x2, A Deal with the Devil, nobody is either a good guy or saving the world, but thankfully they use the extra time to bicker with each other and quibble about who has it worse.

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YouTube Link:

https://youtu.be/NSyIYMLZy2Y

Comments

Trey Goldsworthy

I think your right on about the timeline of Cecil’s past as it was heavily implied that Cecil fought in the Vietnam war.

Aukar frank

Although i tend to be more on marks side, i truly believe both of them were at fault and also trying their best, cecils is correct that mark can be hypocritical sometimes and that people can change for the better even after they had done awful things, mark is correct that cecil implanting a thing in his head and using villains without telling anyone specially mark who fought and stopped and suffered in their hand is concerning and probably not the best ideia, mark comes to strong and cecil ends losing the grip because of his fears and concern for the world. My inclination for mark comes from the fact that in his vision, he has suffered time and time again denying his father and lineage and even violent tendences and learning that all of that still didnt make cecil trust him must have hurt alot specially in a emotional moment after seeing the robots and darkwing. I think he came to strong and i dont blame cecil for being scared but as the adult in the situation i think he should have been the bigger person there. Also not stopping using the sound and robots earlier was rough, not his best good guy moment right there lol

Sunny

This was one of my favorite episodes I think. It's so nuanced Unrelated, I just finished original FF7 for the first time a few days ago (my first final fantasy game) and just finished Crisis Core a few hours ago (I'm devastated) and now I'm playing FF6. Just thought I'd share since you've mentioned how formative 7 was for you many times

Trey Goldsworthy

I love the parallels of Mark killing the ReAnimen with Nolan killing the OG Guardians, being at the same base, Mark crushing one of their heads the same way Nolan crushed Red Rush’s head, the sound design, and the final shot of the scene being the same position as the final shot of the first episode of the show. Mark is becoming more and more like his father in certain ways.

trickster721

I think Cecil might have actually taken too strong a lesson from killing the Hippie Fists. In a sense he was even trying to give Nolan a chance to start over on a new world. "As long as he saves lives, I don't give a damn about his motivations."

trickster721

Immortal's speech about what an honor it is to be part of the Guardians is tough to reconcile with how easily he extends that privilege to Darkwing II at the end.

Sunny
>>165637721

Immortal has a history with the original Darkwing and probably his sidekick, who's the new Darkwing. I find it pretty fitting that he would easily accept someone he knew who's now carrying on the mantle of another friend he respected

Seth

I don’t like the saying “if you kill a bad guy you’re just as bad” Like Sinclair was torturing/killing college students in the most horrifying way possible, he wasn’t some mentally ill guy he was a perfectly sane genius who chose to kill people. I don’t want to live in a world where the truly evil are treated like human beings. Revenge shouldn’t be so looked down upon IMO

agoodwintv
>>165634829

It was a dark time in history, where people were yelling about fresh fish here

agoodwintv
>>165635116

The sound was really the "oh no Cecil, what are you doing" moment for me. The using old villains, that's complex and worth a discussion, it will really depend on the circumstances. And Mark was throwing a tantrum which Cecil initially was trying to deescalate peacefully and with evident sadness about the situation. But then he erodes any of the moral leverage and absolutely shreds his PR image in front of others when he uses a secret weapon on Mark in front of the other heroes 😅

Aukar frank
>>165635116

Yeah, basically torturing mark in front of everyone and proceding to say " it is not your business" really isnt a smart pr move lmao

agoodwintv
>>165635365

Awesome, I'm glad you enjoyed it! It was my first rpg and the feeling I got from leaving midgar and traveling around the world map... It was resonant in that way only media can be. I think it's responsible for a lot of my subsequent travel, though it begs the question of whether it was so resonant because I already had that inclination or I developed the inclination because it was resonant.

agoodwintv
>>165637721

Yeah maybe it's legacy and tradition? A YouTube comment pointed out that he was Abraham Lincoln. This also adds something to his "what??" when learning about the declaration of independence being stolen last episode

madgod

This show is the only reason I'm sticking around on this patreon, that and the endless(2 years and counting) wait for the atla rewatches and comics videos to be made viewable

Sunny
>>165635365

I'm probably too late for that specific experience from the game. I've already played plenty of jrpgs, but I really loved both Cloud and Sephiroth's characters. Their journeys were both sooooo unique. Zack from Crisis Core is even more fascinating and tragic imo. That game hit me like a brick and I think I'll be thinking about it for a long time

agoodwintv
>>165635365

There are just so many things I love about that game lol. Sadly though I wasn't able to finish Crisis Core. I was playing at a friend's house but got interrupted when I moved out if NYC. What other JRPGs do you like? Gotta make sure I'm not missing any classics.

Sunny
>>165635365

Earthbound and Omori are my two favorite games of all time Omori isn't a true jrpg I think, but it's largely inspired by Earthbound and has one of the most compelling and heart wrenching stories I've seen in any media. It will leave you broken in such a bittersweet way Earthbound is genuinely the funniest game I've ever played, and the humor is so dry, right up my alley I never finished Lunar Silver Star Story but it was one of my favorites too, and it and it's sequel are getting a pixel remake bundle coming out in a month. I'm SUPER excited for that! I only recently really got in to jrpgs, but right now I'm going through all the FF games. I have a very specific order I curated but I'm going to be jumping all over the place instead of numerically lol Xenogears is one that I started and loved the vibes, but got distracted with FF. Apparently, Xenogears is made from one of the original pitches for the FF7 story, so I'm excited to get really into that once I feel the pull for it again

Reid Dawson
>>165642801

Send me your Venmo, PayPal, whatever. I’ll give you the $5 for the subscription

Seth
>>165642801

What about severance? It’s by far the best live action show out right now

Jade
>>165639136

Yeah but I'm pretty sure the "you're just as bad as x if you do y" thing is usually more a sentiment than a hard statement.

Jade

Honestly I get both sides even the sound chip I could say what if a mind controlling villain got his hands on Mark somehow who the hell would stop him? I get needing a lifeline but it's the uncharacteristic dishonesty from Cecile of hiding the chip that is obviously WAY too much even if you stretch it. On the other end Mark escalated very quickly (understandably so his best friend and his BF nearly got killed and the latter got trauma for life) but if Mark didn't stick to his morals so harshly the chip wouldn't have been found so yeah just really muddy situation all around. Love me some character drama 😭

Big Fuze

I’ve been waiting bc I’ve been super interested in your thoughts. Cecil says many times, you can be the good guys or the guys who saved the world. Do you think this is just a lame excuse to cope with what they do? A just super realist look at their job to protect earth ? Or maybe even encouragement, because usually the good guys save the world and the world is save by the good guys. So it could be that by doing one they are achieving both. Thoughts?

cade-carter

im 90% against Cecil, the instant he thinks anything might go wrong he immediately jumps to the worst decision

M2GZ
>>165639136

It’s not about whether or not killing said person is justified but wether or not one thinks themselves worthy enough of deciding who gets to live and die the justifications can become blurry and once you cross that line it becomes much easier to do so. Mark isn’t Judge Jury or executioner although many people he encounters probably deserve it but Marks just a teenager and is more than capable of getting things wrong and if he does do that it opens him to a much darker exististence, that’s why they say you’ll be just like him they’re not actually implying that he’s as malicious as Sinclair obviously. You say revenge should not be so looked down upon I couldn’t agree less if there one thing I do not want my superhero to be motivated by it’s revenge as you can find many justifications for doing any number of things when angry that may not be fully necessary. A mark that takes pleasure in killing the people who have wronged him even they are evil is a net negative for humanity.

Seth
>>165639136

Those who purposefully kill innocents should die. You can use vague morals to counter that all you want but theres no afterlife most likely so how is it fair to the victim who will never exist again? He who grants someone eternal nothingness ought to experience nothingness themselves. Mercy isn’t kind it’s weak. The only exception is when keeping an evil person alive saves far more than they took, which is unfortunately the case here so I’m on Cecil’s side for this one

M2GZ
>>165639136

I'm not really here to advocate against the death penalty and if that's the case there should be a whole process for that. If family's want justice who am I to say they cant get revenge when nothings happened to me. We can all empathize with wanting to hurt someone who's harmed us its a very human feeling and if family's can morn easier after then there's a case for it or if they're just to dangerous to be kept in prison but in Marks case it's different. Mark is a superhero he holds a responsibility higher than an average person he is a symbol whether he likes it or not and Mark cant give into those very normal sometimes understandable darker human rationalities because he fights psychos and has crazy shit happen to him every day. You say you're on Cecil's side but he kind of has the opposite take by the end of the episode "People change Donald bad guys reform good guys forget what they're fighting for its.. just how it works" Take Darkwing for example he killed criminals in midnight city i'm sure some of them deserved it but was he killing only mass murderers or drug dealers and hoodlums where exactly is the line? Who gets to decide? Mark? Emotional 19 year old Mark? When talking about Sinclair they weren't necessarily talking about whether or not Sinclair deserves a right to live but more so if Mark had the right to decide there for himself if he should kill him. Rick made it clear that killing Sinclair for what he did to him wasn't the highest answer, him having fill a life sentence in prison would have been but it wasn't Mark who decided to put him to work after all he did it was Cecil. Mark thinks that perhaps because of that he should have just killed him right away for what he did which is your point counter to Cecil's. I don't think a powerful mass murderers life should ever be taking into consideration before an innocents and if his life must be taken in order to protects innocents obviously I'm ok with that but for the sake of revenge? Nah. Superhero's must answer to something higher than that because revenge is arbitrary.

Arakis
>>165648558

It's not that you can't be both. It's that trying to be both, means you're either failing at both or at either one of them. Usually, when you're limiting yourself trying to be a good guy, your efficiency at saving the world goes down significantly.

KrimzonHawka

Always love your deep discussions and hope you pick up Castlevania for your next western animation series cause there is a LOT to talk about throughout that series

Arakis
>>165639136

They operate under rules. The rules say that the enforcers (the superheroes) are NOT judges and they are NOT executioners. They can kill someone IN SELF DEFENCE, but they can't decide to kill someone as punishment.

Arakis

Doesn't everyone liked it when Batman said that he has a backup plan to kill anyone in the Justice League? And that the Justice League itself was his plan against himself? I don't see how it's much different from Cecil having contingency plans against Mark and the other heroes. That's one thing. Now, as for the second point, using the bad guys... I'd say I'm against, HOWEVER, they never tell us the success rate of the reeducation, or the methods. The way they talk about it, it's 100% bulletproof, they can fix everyone. If so, I don't really see a problem. A 100% success brainwashing reeducation is pretty much a completely different person, they may as well consider the previous evil version of the person dead for all intents and purposes.

Vincent

I think the more interesting thing being raised here is that Mark is now a completely independent agent. I'm not sure if he's fully realized it, or if the show is even going to explore it, but he's basically rejected all forms of authority and is living entirely by his own set of morals and ideals now. You can tell something is cooking for Mark's development as a person and in what being a hero means to him - and it's a very scary area to be in, having this "no gods no masters" realization before being fully actualized as a person/hero.

agoodwintv
>>165642801

Yeah sorry about that. Not sure why they went down and my original files are on a hard drive in another country. But you're right it's taken me too long to get it fixed

Jake White

Cecil’s character is genuinely one of my favorite parts of the whole series. He reminds me of the Kenny/Askeladd-style archetype of being clearly not a traditional “good guy,” but still being fully understandable and willing to do whatever is necessary for the goal. Even when I find myself disagreeing with him I still easily can see where he’s coming from and never mad at him for what he does.

agoodwintv
>>165648558

Ultimately I think it's cope, and in the realm of "the ends justify the means," but in nicer packaging. It's understandable and I can't criticize Cecil. But I don't like it

agoodwintv
>>165696526

I guess the difference with Batman is what that preparation entails. Having kryptonite in your belt seems fine by itself. Or how having a gun is fine, but... what would the equivalent be? Secretly putting a kryptonite switch in Superman's head "just in case?" And yeah I agree, I think the question is, are the villains really doing good things now and really won't relapse? If so, I don't really see any any objections except for anger and concepts of fairness, for which their deaths have no possible impact anyway.

Josh Bowers

I'm definitely on Cecil's side when it comes to the moral side of the argument. Redemption and the production of good from previously evil people is supreme excellence, the greatest outcome. However, I definitely think Cecil went too far too quickly when it came to the sound button. A better solution probably would have been to acquiesce to Mark in the moment, let him cool off, then come back and try to hash it out later. Regardless, Mark was also being very unreasonable (understandable, but still), and should also have taken some time to cool his own head before trying to talk it out later.

Josh Bowers
>>165955437

Also, I understand the desire to support Mark after the event, but I feel like when everyone just takes his side, they are making the mistake of flaring his ego and making him believe that he's always right even if he could have been wrong. I'm happy they're there for him, but if someone really wants the best for you, they should also seek to help you grow and mature and platitudes are not the way to go about it.

Josh Bowers

The instant Rudy said that because Mark was the strongest and that the logic dictated he should leave the guardians and side with Mark because he might need him one day, I instantly felt that this was a bad omen. Joining the strongest person because you may need them one day opens the road for so many terrible acts committed in the name of keeping the powerful on your side.

agoodwintv
>>165955437

I see this kind of thing all the time. For example if someone has a breakup, the classic thing is for the friends on each side to attack the other person and make it all their fault (regardless of what actually happened). Some of that is just healthy emotional support, but there's another piece of it that always felt really short sighted to me. Is it really the other person's fault in every way, always? And then there are people who hear that from their friends and think, yeah! I knew I was right about everything!

Perchiq

Guardians really need a trade union.